jumps in 2/1

[bftboy]

If 1M - 2m - 2M can show a really pretty good hand with 6 card M, then what do or should jumps in the major show? eg, 1♥ - 2♦ 3♥, or even 4♥? thx for advice.

[Phil]

3M = I prefer semi-solid / solid suit. "Solid" does not come up enough.

 

4M = same, but NF, no more than one outside card. Not sure what this is playing Namyats however.

[Cascade]

3M = I prefer semi-solid / solid suit. "Solid" does not come up enough.

 

You are not kidding.

[mikeh]

I don't think the distinction is theoretically important...what's important is that you are on the same wavelength.

 

i prefer the solid, and its infrequency doesn't bother me at all. I have lots of bids in my arsenal that rarely arise, yet I don't abandon them for that reason. my view is that when they arise, I will be very well placed and in the meantime I have negative inferences when I use another sequence suggesting similar shape or strength.

 

I like the comfort of responder immediately knowing, over the jump that we have a likely no-loser trump suit opposite xx.....my version of solid is AKQ10xx or better.

 

A one-loser suit, if buttressed by an extra outside control compared to my minimum jump, would likely be just as playable in terms of permitting responder to explore slam. But those hands don't come up often either, and in the meantime my perhaps selective memory fails to provide any memory of wishing that I could make the weaker-suit jump. For me, this is a case of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

[Phil]

I don't think the distinction is theoretically important...what's important is that you are on the same wavelength.

 

i prefer the solid, and its infrequency doesn't bother me at all. I have lots of bids in my arsenal that rarely arise, yet I don't abandon them for that reason. my view is that when they arise,

 

Don't agree. In a 2/1 structure, I believe you have to take a lot of pressure off of 1M - 2x - 2M. If we know what trump are, and AQJTxxx certainly qualify, let's set it early and often.

[Cascade]

Don't agree. In a 2/1 structure, I believe you have to take a lot of pressure off of 1M - 2x - 2M. If we know what trump are, and AQJTxxx certainly qualify, let's set it early and often.

 

I am a self-appointed non expert on 2/1 but it seems to me that 1M 2x; 2M is definitely overloaded in 2/1. IMO overloaded bids are a weakness of the system.

[bucky]

Don't agree. In a 2/1 structure, I believe you have to take a lot of pressure off of 1M - 2x - 2M. If we know what trump are, and AQJTxxx certainly qualify, let's set it early and often.

+1

[andy_h]

My definition for 3M is maximum 1 loser opposite a void and I do agree that solid suit (which was what I used to play) doesn't come up often enough.

[bftboy]

I agree with the discussion, eg, 3M should show abt 16+ hcp and a suit that will play for one (or no, depending on agreement) losers opposite a void. So, a 2M rebid typically (again, depends on agreement) should show 6 cards in the major, but either suit or hand isn't good enough to rebid 3M.

 

What should, say, 1♥ - 2♦ - 4♥ look like? maybe AQx, AJ9xxxx, xx, K? That was a hand I caught the other day. thx

[pooltuna]

You are not kidding.

 

so what is semi solid I have seen some who are unhappy with AKJT5432 and do not consider it a "solid" suit or how about AKQT432

[Fluffy]

I don't really understand why you need a solid suit, you just set up trumps, with ♠KQJ109xxx you are gonna play in spades so you tell partner.

 

Good side suits such as ♠AKJ10xxx should be avoided

[peachy]

so what is semi solid I have seen some who are unhappy with AKJT5432 and do not consider it a "solid" suit or how about AKQT432

 

Just agree on "at least mild extras with strong 6+ suit that should be trump *unless responder has CLEAR better ideas*". Semisolid fits that description, it does not have to be exact, but your suit is too strong/long to tolerate any other strain and should bid something else because you can play in hearts opposite void.

[MTSummit]

1M 2m 3M means for me:

 

trump is decided even if partner has void in my suit. and of course additional strength and slam interest.

 

1M 2m 4M sounds like a hand with less HCPs than normal open (like 9-10) with a solid 7+ suit

[gwnn]

nah AKQ 7th is fine, so is AKQJxx. the purists can keep looking for purity, I will try to make my 68% slams :)

[Lurpoa]

1M (P) 2m (P)

?

 

Very good question !!!

 

I would guess, that 3M = 13+ HCP; 6+ card solid suit or K-Q-J-10-x-x.

But except for maybe the fact that 3M is certainly natural, I can not find a real support for that in the BWStandard.

 

and then using the jump default of BWS 2001:

a. The default interpretation of a bid one level above a strength-showing force is a splinter.

b. The default interpretation of a bid one level above a splinter (e.g., one spade — five diamonds) is Exclusion Key-Card Blackwood. (There are explicit exceptions to this principle.)

 

4M = Exclusion Key-Card Blackwood

 

Does this make sense ?

 

Anyway, looks very much like a vagueness in BWS2001. Could a real BWS expert help us ? Maybe worth a poll ?

[mgoetze]

Anyway, looks very much like a vagueness in BWS2001. Could a real BWS expert help us ? Maybe worth a poll ?

 

As I mentioned on BBO, I think you overestimate how much people care about BWS. ;)

[Free]

I'm with Fluffy. I prefer 1M-2m-3M to just set trumps, start cuebidding.

 

1M-2m-4M doesn't exist because there's no reason to skip the 4-level.