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dbsboy
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22 members have voted

  1. 1. Who's at fault?

    • North 100%
      2
    • North 70%, South 30%
      0
    • Both 50%
      0
    • North 30%, South 70%
      1
    • South 100%
      4
    • No blame
      15

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ArtK78

ArtK78

Posted
Posted

North has an absolutely clear balancing double at any form of scoring.

 

South's problem is more difficult. Since partner is in balancing seat, he does not have to have the strength typical of a takeout double of a preempt. But he could have a very good hand. And, while his RHO is certainly aware that he is making a vul against not preempt, South does have 2 sure defensive tricks and prospects for more (the ♣K, a spade ruff). Partner can be expected to take at least 2, possibly 3 or more tricks.

 

Besides, if South does not pass, what is he supposed to do?

 

I voted no blame. Very tough hand to get right.

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dbsboy

dbsboy

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thx for all the replies. I posted this because I think I had to reassess my balancing requirements.

 

I was North.

Before playing this board, I thought it was quite obvious to double w/ both Majors and some strength.

 

After the board, W (a self-rated expert) said, ''dbl w/ 9 hcp? lol'' sth like that. And my pick-up partner (also a self-rated expert) agreed.

 

Re bucky: if it was a team game i would be less surprised I think, the fact that I saw many in the field chose to pass 3♦ put me in deep thought though.

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mtvesuvius

mtvesuvius

Posted
Posted

It's usually not a good idea to use an online field to judge any aspect of your game. Both you and your partner's actions were completely normal.

 

Just like when 15 tables pass out a board with 12 HCP opposite 11 HCP, and you get to a partscore which fails because of a 5-0 trump split. It's simply unlucky.

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Bbradley62

Bbradley62

Posted
Posted
It's usually not a good idea to use an online field to judge any aspect of your game. Both you and your partner's actions were completely normal.

 

Just like when 15 tables pass out a board with 12 HCP opposite 11 HCP, and you get to a partscore which fails because of a 5-0 trump split. It's simply unlucky.

This is a strange comment after 12 of the 15 voters said "no blame". OP asked if someone was to blame, and the online field gave a clear answer, which agrees with yours. Asking the field to judge OP's actions is exactly why this forum exists.

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mtvesuvius

mtvesuvius

Posted
Posted

This is a strange comment after 12 of the 15 voters said "no blame". OP asked if someone was to blame, and the online field gave a clear answer, which agrees with yours. Asking the field to judge OP's actions is exactly why this forum exists.

I am referring to the 16 tables the result is compared against, not the forum.

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655321

655321

Posted
Posted
the fact that I saw many in the field chose to pass 3♦ put me in deep thought though.

 

 

It's usually not a good idea to use an online field to judge any aspect of your game. Both you and your partner's actions were completely normal.

 

Just like when 15 tables pass out a board with 12 HCP opposite 11 HCP, and you get to a partscore which fails because of a 5-0 trump split. It's simply unlucky.

 

 

This is a strange comment after 12 of the 15 voters said "no blame". OP asked if someone was to blame, and the online field gave a clear answer, which agrees with yours. Asking the field to judge OP's actions is exactly why this forum exists.

 

Perhaps that makes it easier for you to follow the conversation.

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mtvesuvius

mtvesuvius

Posted
Posted

To me, the North hand is an obvious pass. The working rule when balancing over a preempt is assume 11 points with partner and bid what you think you can make. Ask yourself "do I want to be at the three level with this hand opposite an 11 count?"

This is completely faulty logic. In this auction, you are not only doubling to find a Major Suit fit (you are 5-4!), but also to protect partner, who may have been making a trap pass of 3♦. There are plenty of 11 counts that it is completely right to balance against. There are plenty of 7 counts even. Qxxx Jxxx xxx Ax is just one of them. How would you feel if you passed this out, and partner had something like Qxx xx AKTxx Axx?

 

I'd recommend you try to construct some hands where balancing with a double will lead to a very bad result; and not because partner didn't have the ♦9.You are a passed hand, now balancing W/R: Partner won't hang you, and will be very pleased to see a double when they passed with a diamond stack, which is quite likely here.

 

Sometimes bad results happen, and this is a case of an unfortunate lie of the cards.

 

And to some members of the B/I, when making a Takeout double in Direct seat, you can usually place partner with an "average" of 7-8 HCP (not 11!), scattered ones however, not the perfectos. In balancing, I don't believe any simulations have been run to establish one way or the other... 11 points sounds reasonable, but more often than not, you're bidding to protect partner who may have had to pass over 3♦ with a fairly good hand.

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