forcing stayman

[olien]

So, I'm playing a weak NT with 1N-2♦ as a GF relay. I'm wondering, what is the most effective use for other responses?

 

Should 1N-2N be artificial for some hand type? Or what is recommended?

Should 1N-2♣ be a puppet to 2♦?

 

Thanks

[rbforster]

So, I'm playing a weak NT with 1N-2♦ as a GF relay. I'm wondering, what is the most effective use for other responses?

 

Should 1N-2N be artificial for some hand type? Or what is recommended?

Should 1N-2♣ be a puppet to 2♦?

 

Thanks

Something simple to play would be:

 

2♣ - inv stayman, or garbage intending to pass any response. Then 2M = 5 card invite, 3M = 6 card invite, 3m = 5+ distributional invite, 2N for the rest.

2M/3m - signoffs

2N to taste, perhaps 5/5 minors weak or GF

3M - 5/5 majors inv/GF

 

You lose the crawling stayman sequences (checking for the 4-4 fit when responder is 5-4 in the majors before playing in the 5M).

You play 2N when responder has a 4♠ invite opposite 44 majors with a minimum opener.

 

That said, you get to stop low in 2M on a lot of invitational hands, which is much better than the alternatives IMHO (like 2♣...3M including a 5 card invite).

[straube]

Something simple to play would be:

 

2♣ - inv stayman, or garbage intending to pass any response. Then 2M = 5 card invite, 3M = 6 card invite, 3m = 5+ distributional invite, 2N for the rest.

2M/3m - signoffs

2N to taste, perhaps 5/5 minors weak or GF

3M - 5/5 majors inv/GF

 

You lose the crawling stayman sequences (checking for the 4-4 fit when responder is 5-4 in the majors before playing in the 5M).

You play 2N when responder has a 4♠ invite opposite 44 majors with a minimum opener.

 

That said, you get to stop low in 2M on a lot of invitational hands, which is much better than the alternatives IMHO (like 2♣...3M including a 5 card invite).

 

As a point of interest, I read somewhere that there used to be a debate between 1N-2C, 2L-2M as whether the 2M bid should be forcing or not. Those who played forcing stayman said yes and those who played non-forcing stayman said no. Non-forcing stayman pretty much won out. Now both terms are often applied to the double-barrelled approach (2C where a 2M rebid is nf and 2D where a 2S rebid is f).

 

I think most people who use 2D as GF stayman also use 2C as nf stayman. I think Rob's approach is a nice balance between simplicity and what works well. I think I'd use a direct 2N as a natural invitation so as to avoid lead-directing overcalls or disclosing opener's hand when there isn't hope of a 4-4 majors suit fit.

[awm]

A Keri-like approach might be better here. If 2♣ forces 2♦, you can then bid 2M as 4-5M NF invite.

 

This gains you a diamond signoff, lets you stop in 2M somewhat more often, and prevents opener from disclosing his length in the "other major" that responder does not care about.

[mikestar13]

I prefer 5-card major Stayman, as I open 1NT with 5-3-3-2 and a major all the time. Sequences are like Puppet Stayman but one level lower.

[Crunch3nt]

If you are playing 2D GF Relay (why not 2C GF Relay as a matter of interest?) then summarising all of the comments above gives over a weak or mini NT:

 

3NT To Play

3S Anti-stayman (ie GF, no slam interest, 4 of bid major (or other major depending on how GFR works), denies 4 of other major)

3H Anti-stayman (ie GF, no slam interest, 4 of bid major (or other major depending on how GFR works), denies 4 of other major)

3D To Play

3C To Play

2NT Invitational, NF

2S To Play

2H To Play

2D GF Relay

2C Art. Puppet to 2D (I would allow opener to bid a 5 card major instead of 2D). Shows either a) invite with a major, or B) GF with a singleton somewhere

 

1NT 2C

2D 2M Invite 4M

2NT 31(54), or 13(54, or 6 Diamonds slam try, singleton somewhere, then 3C asks:

3D = 3154 or 1354 (3H asks), 3H, 3S, 3NT = Diamonds, & singleton

3C 6 clubs singleton, 3D asks

3D-3NT = GF 4441

[NickToll]

The following seems sensible to me:

 

2♣: non forcing Stayman, with 2♦♥♠ replies; here responder invites with 2NT or a raise, other rebids are weak - e.g. 1NT-2♣; 2♠-3♦ is to play with four hearts and long diamonds.

 

2NT: puppet to 3♣, to play in a minor partscore (pass or 3♦) or show a minor 2suiter (3♥ or 3♠ in a short suit, 3NT with 5-5, 4♣ with 5-5 and extra values).

 

3 of a suit: game forcing, singleton or void in the bid suit, guarantees a four-card major, slam possible if opener has no wasted values. Artificial follow-ups can be attached here, but they are usually unnecessary: opener will reply 3NT with a double stopper opposite partner's short suit (usually ending the bidding), or propose a suit of his own, later suggesting slam when appropriate. Compare with 2♦, that works well when you are looking for a fit, but rarely helps to judge how useful opener's honors will be.

 

4♣ or 4♦: South African Transfers to 4♥ or 4♠, respectively. Follow with RKCB when you have the right hand.