Never 5C ?

[dellache]

[hv=pc=n&e=sq5h7d653ckjt8532&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1sd3s4cpp4sppdppp]133|200|3S = Invite, not PRE[/hv]

[the hog]

Bidding 4C and then 5C is really poor as you are taking the last guess on the hand. Either bid 4C and pass the double, or bid an immediate 5C - my choice.

[dake50]

First bid 5C. No suggestion of defending this hand.

 

5C after partner doubles 4S -- particularly poor defense for a free 4C bid.

[Fluffy]

5♣, 5♣, 5♣, maybe a pass at some point after previous misake is better, but I just wanna bid 5♣.

[gwnn]

first time bid 5♣.

 

second time bid 5♣ even though it's inconsistent

 

third time bid 5♣ even though it's really really inconsistent

[mr1303]

I fully agree with the principle of not bidding 5C here once partner has made a penalty double of 4S, but given I was going to bid 5C the first time around, I can't make myself not bid it second or third time

[gwnn]

by the way, I disagree with my first post. Bidding 5♣ the second time is more inconsistent than bidding 5♣ the third time. Partner can't have a pure penalty double - he just shows extra values. We are allowed to pull it, it is not inconsistent. With this hand it would be bad though, given that it was a 5♣ bid the first time around.

[rduran1216]

Are we playing equal level conversions?, I'd hate to punish partner if he's red.

[the hog]

Are we playing equal level conversions?, I'd hate to punish partner if he's red.

Good grief! Surely you are not playing ELC at the four level!

[gnasher]

Good grief! Surely you are not playing ELC at the four level!

I think the point was that partner might have been planning to use ELC at the two-level, so he may not have many clubs.

[No_Duck]

First of all I bid 5♣ at the first opportunity

 

OPP has 9+ ♠ and we Have 10+ ♣

 

I consider total tricks are about

18 in 10% case

19 in 50%

20 in 30%

21 in 10%

 

then I think 4♠ will make or go down one trick (25%) or make (50%) or make an overtrick (25%)

 

you can adjust my probabilities but the result will remain very close :

 

let them play 4♠ undoubled is about average -390 and playing 5♣ doubled is about -310

 

then it is better to bid and to play 5♣

 

of course if there is only 18 or 19 tricks the best choice is not to play 5♣

and if there is 20 or 21 we have to bid 5♣

 

Also this rise the question :

Is PASS on 3♠ a sensible choice?

For me I prefer by far 1/ 5♣ then 2/ PASS 3/4♣

[Phil]

I would bid 5♣ the first time and I think its clear. Does anyone really think we are going to buy it in 4♣?

 

Having misbid the 1st time, I would still bid 5♣ over 4♠ and do not consider it that inconsistent as my counterparts. While this is not the hand, there can be instances where you hope you could 'buy' it for 4♣, but take insurance over 4♠ anyway.

 

I would also pull the double which is penalty. This isn't a 'I have a good hand, what do you think' double. Partner passed 4♣ already. It feels wrong pulling the double with shortness in a suit that partner is hoping to cash some tricks (hearts) but I cannot stomach sitting when I have a 7 card suit and practically no defense.

[mikestar13]

I knew you guys were aggressive, but this is crazy--the hand may be only worth 5 tricks as you may well have to lead ♣ from your hand. Pass throughout-- this could easily be -800 or worse if you bid.

[mtvesuvius]

I knew you guys were aggressive, but this is crazy--the hand may be only worth 5 tricks as you may well have to lead ♣ from your hand. Pass throughout-- this could easily be -800 or worse if you bid.

 

LOL

[the hog]

I knew you guys were aggressive, but this is crazy--the hand may be only worth 5 tricks as you may well have to lead ♣ from your hand. Pass throughout-- this could easily be -800 or worse if you bid.

 

And why do you think you may well have to lead ♣ from your hand? Do you think partner doubled with a void?