Garbage Poll!

[awm]

Assuming that the sequence 1N-2♣-2♦-2♥ is less than invitational with both major suits, which major do you expect to be longer? Assume that 1N-2♣-2♦-2♠ would show invitational values here.

[straube]

If you agree to transfer to spades with 5S/4H, then opener will pass after 1N-2C, 2D-2H with 3/3 in the majors. If you don't have that agreement, opener will have to guess.

[karlson]

Would definitely not want to play that either could be longer, I think it's not worth getting half the hands where opener has equal length wrong in order to try to get to the 5-4 which they might not even let you play.

 

I think hearts>=spades is standard, but I guess it seems playable the other way, don't see the advantage though.

[kenberg]

First: I like the style (as you state) that 1N-2C-2D-2S shows an invitational hand with five spades and four hearts. But many around here play that as weak with the same shape.

 

At any rate, I think 1N-2C-2D-2H should be at least four hearts and exactly four spades. To put it another way, what is partner, the opening notrumper, to do? If he has three hearts, surely he passes. He has a decision to make only when he has two hearts and three spades. If I hold that hand then my action depends partly on my cards, partly on our agreement. QJx and two small and I will give 2♠ a shot. With xxx and Kx I would really like to pass. No one has doubled yet. If partner regularly runs this sequence on 4-4 I have a problem.

 

With five spades, four hearts and weak, then, if 2C-2D-2S is invit, I have to just trf to spades. This need not be bad. It could be, but even if partner has four hearts you may land on your feet and, further, the opponents may have a minor fit that the will find more easily at the tables where the auction begins 1NT-2♣.

[CSGibson]

I think that it could and should be showing either as longer, because you are probably going to want to use garbage stayman with 9 cards (split 5/4) in the majors no matter which is longer, and because your system does not allow you to bid 2♠ to play. While this style has drawbacks, it also has the advantage of allowing partner to play in a 4-3 fit instead of a 5-2 fit when he is 2-3 in the majors.

[bucky]

At any rate, I think 1N-2C-2D-2H should be at least four hearts and exactly four spades.

What about 5-5 in majors and weak hand? You don't start with garbage stayman?

[peachy]

What about 5-5 in majors and weak hand? You don't start with garbage stayman?

 

I would expect 4-4, definitely not 5 cards.

[RJWP]

My agreement ♥ + ♠ partn must corrocr to 2s with equal lenght in ♥/♠ so 5♠+4♥ possible

[RJWP]

My agreement ♥ + ♠ partn must corrocr to 2s with equal lenght in ♥/♠ so 5♠+4♥ possible

read the comments dont agree by playng it this way you always end up in 4-3 and as a plus in 5-3 ♠

[kenberg]

What about 5-5 in majors and weak hand? You don't start with garbage stayman?

 

 

A very legitimate question, of course. I have to say that I am not certain. It doesn't seem to arise often. I think I would split this into two cases:

 

1. Even with my 5-5 shape it is inconceivable to me that I would ever want to do anything beyond helping partner escape from NT. Yes, I would probably bid 2♣/ Over 2♦ I would bid hearts, and not bid again until the next hand.

 

 

2. A hand that while it is not game invitational, I could at least imagine contesting the auction to the three level. I think I would start with a transfer to spades and drop it, hoping for the best, but then if the opponents compete I might be able to show the hearts without also suggesting I want to go beyond 3 of something.

 

 

My guess is that a fair portion of the time that I am dealt a weak 5-5 the opponents can take nine tricks in some minor. In case 1, my view is fine, let them. In case 2 I will battle on if it is possible to do so w/o exciting partner.

 

I am far from sure I am right, but I think this is what I would do. I can't recall it happening and I have discussed this with no partner. Usually I play 1NT-3♥ as 5-5 invit.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Assuming that the sequence 1N-2♣-2♦-2♥ is less than invitational with both major suits, which major do you expect to be longer? Assume that 1N-2♣-2♦-2♠ would show invitational values here.

If you are playing "garbage" Stayman properly,

Responder has either a weak: 4-4, 5-5 or 5s/4h...( with a weak 4s/5h, you just transfer to 2H and pass ).

 

Opener then either passes 2H or corrects to 2S with "equal number or longer " Spades, and like someone has already said, you will play in at least a 4-3 fit ( either major ) or 5-3 in Spades or 5-3 in Hts when Responder is 5/5 and Opener is 2s/3h.

[pooltuna]

abstain since I don't agree with any of the choices

[gwnn]

How can that be?? :) Maybe you like to play that 2♥ guarantees equal length, but in that case you agree with two poll choices :)