Take-out response

[kenberg]

This is at a very elementary level but yesterday I was the beneficiary of a bidding glitch that I have seen before so I thought I would mention it.

 

I opened 1♣, double on my left, pass by partner, 1♥ on my right.

I rebid 2♣.

 

They have an eight card major suit fit but it is in spades, not hearts. Lho cannot bid 2♠, it would show five and a big hand. Rho can't bid 2♠ since, for all he knows their eight card fit might be in hearts, and he doesn't have the values to force the bidding to 3♥. So they missed their spade fit.

 

Rho and I are on good terms so I remarked "I know you didn't ask me but in my opinion you should bid 1♠ first and then 2♥ so that you can safely find your major suit fit." We are still on good terms after my remark, and it made sense to him. To me this approach is obvious and simply a matter of logic rather than convention but I have frequently encountered the belief that you should respond to a TOX up the line, just as you respond to an opening of 1m, so I thought I would drop this note.

[helene_t]

Yes, RHO needs to bid 1♠ first.

 

You bid lower-suit-first when you want to give partner the space to bid and higher-suit-first when you want to give more space to yourself. With two 5-card suits you bid the higher first because you want to bid both of them. With two 4-card suits (when you are opener or responder) you bid the lower first because you intend to bid only one of them. You expect p to introduce a 4-card suit if you give him the room

 

When responding to a dbl you want to give more space to yourself: With two 4-card suits you want to bid both of them, you don't expect doubler to take further initiative to find a 4-4 fit. So the situation is analogous to opening or responding with 5-5.

 

In short, it is not about 4 vs 5. It is about whether you intend to introduce both suits yourself, or not.

[Free]

You can also use 2♣ as showing at least 4-4M. You lose the cuebid, but you show both suits immediately. But without this agreement 1♠ is definitely better than 1♥

[655321]

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/39522-your-plan-with-this-biggie/

[TWO4BRIDGE]

You were correct.

Advancer should bid 1S first with 4/4 in the Majors.

 

This is an exception to the up-the-line "rule".

It is up to the Advancer to introduce BOTH suits with a 4/4.

By bidding Sp first the doubler can play either suit at the 2-level.

 

Partner with a minimum T/O DBL has either support for ALL unbid suits ( so 1S should be fine ) OR he is strong enough to be able to force again. So you would like to show that 2nd suit without reversing:

 

For example:

(1D) - X - (p) - 1S

(2D) - X - (p) - 2H

[bucky]

I don't know where the notion of responding to take-out double up-the-line comes from, I can only guess this is due to confusion with responding to an opening bid. The difference is that, when you have 4-4 in majors and respond 1♥, opener can still bid 1♠ with a minimum hand, but this is not true for the doubler to bid a new suit.

[kenberg]

Sure, I agree. Presumably everyone who gives it some thought comes to the same conclusion. But I have seen it enough times (haven't you?) that I thought I would drop a note.