The Misadventures of Rex and Jay--#5743

[microcap]

You are dealt the interesting collection of[hv=pc=n&n=sahkdaqj95432cat4]133|100[/hv].

 

First question: Is this a 2 club opener in 2/1 or sayc? Please elaborate yes or no.

 

Second question: Assuming you open 1♦, partner responds 1♥. What is your rebid and why?

 

Thanks

[wyman]

You are dealt the interesting collection of[hv=pc=n&n=sahkdaqj95432cat4]133|100[/hv].

 

First question: Is this a 2 club opener in 2/1 or sayc? Please elaborate yes or no.

 

Second question: Assuming you open 1♦, partner responds 1♥. What is your rebid and why?

 

Thanks

1 is a style question.

 

2. 3C

 

 

[the hog]

Well it is a style question as tp whether to open 2C or not, but I think a 3C rebid stinks. I would play 2NT as forcing and multi shaped.

[wyman]

Well it is a style question as tp whether to open 2C or not, but I think a 3C rebid stinks. I would play 2NT as forcing and multi shaped.

 

Except that, per the OP, you are playing SAYC.

[Free]

Not a 2♣ opener for me, a simple 1♦ will be enough.

 

I play 3♦ rebid as GF, so I'd bid that (and denying a 3 card ♥ at the same time). Obviously that's not standard sayc or 2/1, but there's a reason why everyone plays something else with these kind of hands. ;) Without this agreement, I guess 3♣ has some merit, but I think I'd still bid 3/4♦. Does 4♦ show ♥ support in sayc and 2/1?

[microcap]

Except that, per the OP, you are playing SAYC.

 

Though we are playing 2/1, Rex is always open to conventional suggestions so don't feel restrained! :lol:

[TWO4BRIDGE]

You are dealt the interesting collection of[hv=pc=n&n=sahkdaqj95432cat4]133|100[/hv].

 

First question: Is this a 2 club opener in 2/1 or sayc? Please elaborate yes or no.

 

Second question: Assuming you open 1♦, partner responds 1♥. What is your rebid and why?

 

Thanks

Another one where I can use Gnasher's "toy" and my followups:

 

1D - 1H

2S!- 2NT!

??

3C! = 3-of-other-minor)= 4s, no 3h, 5+d

3D! = long Diam, no 4s, no 3h

3H! = 3h, no 4s, 5+d

3S! = 4s AND 3h, 5+d

 

where:

2S! = GF and maybe artificial (Note: only works over a 1H Response )

......2NT! = asks

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Using the 2S! as artificial instead of 3C!( maybe artifical)GF

gives more room for info, AND when 3C is used, it is ALWAYS NATURAL !

 

AND, more importantly, you can reserve the 2NT jump rebid exclusively for your balanced 18,19 hcp hands.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Here is another one recently, only long Clubs:

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/42262-how2-force-after-opening-1c/

 

Title: how2 force after opening 1C ...system issue

[Fluffy]

2♣ is wrong with 8 card suits, no need to look any further into the hand, if it contains an 8 card suit you are not doing well by opening 2♣.

 

 

After 1♦, even when I play 2NT GF rebid, I tend to have semibal hands for it, 3♣ is closer to what partner expects.

[mike777]

yes 1d open, 4 loser hand..not good enough for 2c.

 

I dont have a toy here so yes 3c rebid. Too good for 3d rebid which granted can be a wide ranging nf rebid so that is out.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I hope you post Responder's hand...

( I'd like to see how it fits into my scheme of things... post # 7 ).

[billw55]

2♣ is wrong with 8 card suits, no need to look any further into the hand, if it contains an 8 card suit you are not doing well by opening 2♣.

hmmm, really? On this particular hand I bid 1♦ because it is not strong enough for 2♣. But you seem to be saying that no hand with an 8 card suit should open 2♣? Or did I misunderstand?

 

Personally, for long-suited hands with less than ~21 hcp, I consider 2♣ if I am one trick short of game in my hand. Here I have only 9 tricks in my hand at diamonds, so 2♣ is right out.

 

I open 1♦ and rebid 3NT over 1♥, which I thought showed exactly this kind of hand, a long strong minor with outside stoppers.

[nigel_k]

I would probably open 2♣ but I think it's close. After opening 1♦, definitely rebid 3♣ followed by diamonds. Partner should understand you will often not have real clubs when you rebid your original suit next but will know that club honours are useful and major suit honours below the ace are not.

[gwnn]

Nothing wrong with 2♣. You just need 1 bid to describe your hand later and that will be a diamond bid. The only problem is that sometimes you wrongside ♦ :)

[cloa513]

Another one where I can use Gnasher's "toy" and my followups:

 

1D - 1H

2S!- 2NT!

??

3C! = 3-of-other-minor)= 4s, no 3h, 5+d

3D! = long Diam, no 4s, no 3h

3H! = 3h, no 4s, 5+d

3S! = 4s AND 3h, 5+d

 

where:

2S! = GF and maybe artificial (Note: only works over a 1H Response )

......2NT! = asks

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Using the 2S! as artificial instead of 3C!( maybe artifical)GF

gives more room for info, AND when 3C is used, it is ALWAYS NATURAL !

 

AND, more importantly, you can reserve the 2NT jump rebid exclusively for your balanced 18,19 hcp hands.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Here is another one recently, only long Clubs:

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/42262-how2-force-after-opening-1c/

 

Title: how2 force after opening 1C ...system issue

That copes with the heart overcall how about spades, do you blur the meaning of the 2H rebid or bid 2NT with Gnasher's tool?

[mr1303]

Well I generally hate opening 2C with primary diamonds, but this is a hand that I'll make an exception on.

 

1) 1D 1 banana 3D is not forcing

2) 1D 1 banana 3C is an aberration

3) 1D 1 banana 4D shows 4 card banana support

4) 1D 1 banana 3NT shows a solid diamond suit. Besides which, this has too much slam potential for this bid.

[Fluffy]

Well I generally hate opening 2C with primary diamonds, but this is a hand that I'll make an exception on.

 

1) 1D 1 banana 3D is not forcing

2) 1D 1 banana 3C is an aberration

3) 1D 1 banana 4D shows 4 card banana support

4) 1D 1 banana 3NT shows a solid diamond suit. Besides which, this has too much slam potential for this bid.

I am very happy with 3♣, it focuses on ♣KQ and we will most likelly be able to rectify any club contract to diamonds.

 

Besides I never expect opponents to pass all the time when I ahve an 8 card suit.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

That copes with the heart overcall... How about spades? Do you blur the meaning of the 2H rebid or bid 2NT with Gnasher's tool?

As I said in my reply, the 2S! GF jump can ONLY be used over a 1H Response.

 

With a 1S Response you have to go with 3C!:

1D - 1S

3C! = GF and may be artificial

( I've shown my personal followups ... ad nauseum to many folks ... in other threads ).

[mikeh]

It's an imperfect world, and as I teach the group that comes to my free before game lectures most Fridays, we all get lots of hands that don't match the examples we find in textbooks on bidding. So we need to choose the 'least' distortion.

 

2♣ is imo unmanageable....the prospects of preempting ourselves or of being preempted are too great, especially when we are 1-1 in the majors and our suit is not solid.

 

So 1♦ seems the best opening.

 

We can be mildly grateful that partner responded 1♥ rather than 1♠, since we have a sure stopper in spades, while had he bid that suit, we'd be nervous about our ♥ stopper.

 

We have to reach game now, so need to make a forcing bid. That eliminates a 3♦ call.

 

Absent specialized gadgets (and I don't have any anyway, intrigued tho I am by 2♠ artificial)the choice is between 3♣ and 3N.

 

3N classically shows a running 6+ minor and stoppers in the unbid suits: prototypically something like AJx x AKQJxxx Axx (yes, I see the 14 cards.....that's why I wrote 'something like') It's a hand that will have 8 or 9 cashers unless they run responder's suit on us. Since prototypical hands rarely appear outside of textbooks, most players will allow a fudge on the hand-type.

 

There are flaws for 3N: the lack of the diamond K being the main one, but the 8th diamond is another. Since one flaw suggests we are understrength and the other suggests the opposite, I can live with it.

 

3♣ is less immediately flawed since it is relatively 'normal' (for many players) to manufacture a jumpshift into a 3 card club suit. But for me the problem arises on the next round....I suspect that I will not be able to show the true nature of this hand over most anticipated rebids....so 3♣ probably leads to a less-informed auction than does 3N.

 

Nothing's perfect, which is where I came in, but 1♦ then 3N for me.

[nige1]

You are dealt the interesting collection of[hv=pc=n&n=sahkdaqj95432cat4]133|100[/hv] First question: Is this a 2 club opener in 2/1 or sayc? Please elaborate yes or no. Second question: Assuming you open 1♦, partner responds 1♥. What is your rebid and why?

IMO

1. 1♦ = 10, 2♣ = 6. 1♦ is unlikely be passed out. It makes it easier to insist on ♦ as trumps, in competition.
2. 3♣ = 10, 2♣ = 7, 3N = 6, 3♦ = 5. Don't risk partner passing, now that you've survived the first round of the auction.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

You are dealt the interesting collection of[hv=pc=n&n=sahkdaqj95432cat4]133|100[/hv].

 

First question: Is this a 2 club opener in 2/1 or sayc?

One thing that intrigues me about a 2C open is... wouldn't you love to hear a positive suit response showing 2-of-the-top-3 honors ! ! ... in either ♠ or ♥.

 

Let's say you get to the 6D knowing partner doesn't hold the ♦K.

One testy problem is getting to dummy to pitch your two Cl losers.

 

However, if you got a positve ♣ Response showing 2-of-the-top-3, then you would have an entry...

at least to try the Diam finesse.

[bucky]

One thing that intrigues me about a 2C open is... wouldn't you love to hear a positive suit response showing 2-of-the-top-3 honors ! ! ... in either ♠ or ♥.

 

Let's say you get to the 6D knowing partner doesn't hold the ♦K.

One testy problem is getting to dummy to pitch your two Cl losers.

 

However, if you got a positve ♣ Response showing 2-of-the-top-3, then you would have an entry...

at least to try the Diam finesse.

If you are ever going to get a positive response, isn't it much more likely in a major than in ♣? And if you do get positive ♣ response (which typically shows 6+ in addition to top honors), isn't slam in clubs usually better than in diamonds?

[mike777]

a positive response of 3c or 3 major is very rare......pard needs more than KQxxx(x) .....

[microcap]

[hv=pc=n&s=sj5432hqj32d4cqt2]133|100[/hv] This was responder's hand, I decided to pretend my hearts and spades were equal length as I hated my hand and wanted to keep the bidding low. It didn't really matter on this hand.

 

Anyway, Rex jump shifted to 3♣ because he always knows the "book" bid, even if I never understand. I bid 3NT, now 4♦ and I thought he was 6-4 or even 6-5 in the minors. I bid 5♣, now Rex bid 5♦ and I even I could figure out how to pass that one. Believe it or not, it made on dreadful defense, same contract at the other table was down 2.

 

Note that 3NT is by far the best game.

[mike777]

[hv=pc=n&s=sj5432hqj32d4cqt2]133|100[/hv] This was responder's hand, I decided to pretend my hearts and spades were equal length as I hated my hand and wanted to keep the bidding low. It didn't really matter on this hand.

 

Anyway, Rex jump shifted to 3♣ because he always knows the "book" bid, even if I never understand. I bid 3NT, now 4♦ and I thought he was 6-4 or even 6-5 in the minors. I bid 5♣, now Rex bid 5♦ and I even I could figure out how to pass that one. Believe it or not, it made on dreadful defense, same contract at the other table was down 2.

 

Note that 3NT is by far the best game.

 

 

 

yes 4d after 3nt is the real question on this one. :)

 

btw hate 1h....just bid your hand....1s

[TWO4BRIDGE]

What a pitiful hand for Responder.

Even with my system, I'm not sure I could restrain myself and not go past 3NT with that big Opener hand.