Signals explained improperly

[bd71]

Very simple one here, but I think I got the wrong answer from a club director so wanted to verify with this group.

 

Partner and I have agreed to play odd/even signals vs. suits, Lavinthal vs. NT.

 

We are defending a NT contract. After I have made my first discard of the hand, declarer asks partner our signals, and he incorrectly says "odd/even."

 

When am I obligated to correct my partner?

 

Bonus follow-up question:

 

By the time the director got finished bungling his questions and explanations, none of us wanted to pursue the issue further so we didn't. But...declarer thought that the misexplanation cost her a trick. My partner thought his misunderstanding actually hurt us more than anything she did...and that his incorrect defense (thinking I had given an o/e signal) hurt us 1-2 tricks. How would this typically get sorted out?

[pran]

Very simple one here, but I think I got the wrong answer from a club director so wanted to verify with this group.

 

Partner and I have agreed to play odd/even signals vs. suits, Lavinthal vs. NT.

 

We are defending a NT contract. After I have made my first discard of the hand, declarer asks partner our signals, and he incorrectly says "odd/even."

 

When am I obligated to correct my partner?

After play is completed (of course?)

 

Bonus follow-up question:

 

By the time the director got finished bungling his questions and explanations, none of us wanted to pursue the issue further so we didn't. But...declarer thought that the misexplanation cost her a trick. My partner thought his misunderstanding actually hurt us more than anything she did...and that his incorrect defense (thinking I had given an o/e signal) hurt us 1-2 tricks. How would this typically get sorted out?

The Director should hear both sides and then judge the probable result had there been no misinformation. If he then finds that declarer has been damaged he should adjust.

(Although laws 21 and 75 concentrate upon the auction they must apply correspondingly to the play)

[iviehoff]

But...declarer thought that the misexplanation cost her a trick. My partner thought his misunderstanding actually hurt us more than anything she did...and that his incorrect defense (thinking I had given an o/e signal) hurt us 1-2 tricks. How would this typically get sorted out?

If declarer is correct that the misexplanation cost a trick, then they deserve a trick at adjustment. Your partner's own misunderstanding is his own fault, and he gets no relief for it. Calculation of the adjustment assumes non-offending side correctly informed, but offending side retains their own misunderstanding.

[jeremy69]

Worrying that your partner did not know the basic system of signals. Lucky it wasn't England where the odd/even signal would have been illegal. If the wrong explanation caused a problem for the other side then an adjustment would be pretty automatic

 

My partner thought his misunderstanding actually hurt us more than anything she did...and that his incorrect defense (thinking I had given an o/e signal) hurt us 1-2 tricks.

 

Your partner has remarkable thought processes. You play a method, it is wrongly explained and in addition to damage to the opponent the defence went wrong costing a trick or two and this might get recompense! All I can say is "get real". If your side does not know it's methods and causes a bit of havoc then it should certainly not benefit from a friendly TD decision for this. If it cost 1-2 tricks then perhaps next time partner will remember what he is playing!

[paulg]

Lucky it wasn't England where the odd/even signal would have been illegal.

I presume the OP means discards when he says signal, especially as odd/even signals (as opposed to discards) are not legal in the ACBL either.

[peachy]

I presume the OP means discards when he says signal, especially as odd/even signals (as opposed to discards) are not legal in the ACBL either.

 

This needs clarification:

In ACBL, odd/even is labeled a dual-message carding strategy. Allowed only on each defender's first discard.

[bluejak]

Exactly. And the question in the OP was after the first discard.

 

Experience both in playing in North America and in discussions in such places as RGB suggest that while English players generally consider signals and discards are not the same, in North America players often use the term 'signals' when referring to discards.

[barmar]

Since odd/even is only permitted in ACBL on the first discard, it's understood from context that when someone says they play "odd/even", they must be referring to discards. But conscientious players will be more precise and complete; In response to any inquiry about defensive carding, my partner and I always say "We play upside-down count and attitude, and odd/even first discards against suit contracts." ACBL alert regulations encourage this (they say that it's not necessary to ask the right question, the answerer should infer what you're really asking about and give a complete explanation).

[mycroft]

Yes, "odd/even" in the ACBL refers to discards unambiguously (unless they're doing something illegal, in which case, it's still unambiguous). And having said "O/E vs suits, Lavinthal vs NT", it's even more clear the OP is talking discards.

 

Having said that, getting "O/E" as an answer to "carding, please?" is really really annoying, because I might just want to know about the rest of your carding (whether or not I am asking at the first discard).

 

I have been known to say "Standard, except for a couple of situations that don't apply on this hand", especially at pairs, to warn them that things might be different next hand (and I will warn them, if I can safely, if it is different next hand). They usually don't need to know our weird method when we show 4 or more cards in a suit, that suit is led to trick 1, and we are allowed to signal, for instance...

[wyman]

Having said that, getting "O/E" as an answer to "carding, please?" is really really annoying, because I might just want to know about the rest of your carding (whether or not I am asking at the first discard).

 

I never know how aggressively to pursue this. Typically at a club game, I will just ask to see their card. Then if nothing is checked off under carding, I am not sure whether or not to call the director.

 

When I've tried to clarify with "what about carding other than your first discard?" I have usually been met with blank stares or angry/embarrassed "we don't play that way" (huh?)

[blackshoe]

You might want to call the TD and suggest that since you asked about carding, and they said "O/E", apparently they're playing an illegal method (odd/even signals, or odd/even discards after the first, or both). :ph34r:

 

In practice, I'd just say something like "I'm sorry, I don't understand. Could you clarify, please?" If they get stroppy, then I'd call the director.