gwnn Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 This might be much more uncontroversial than my previous thread similar to this. Still. The poll options assume that you are 4th hand over dummy (S is declarer, playing from hand, and you are E). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpyder Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 Can we have an "either" option, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 No, the point of online forums is not to seek harmony and consensus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 It depends on which card you hold :unsure: I voted that I hold the K and don't take a trick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 whi does dummy have to have the queen? can't I duck the king when dummy has K765432? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 I didn't mean to imply that dummy had to hold the queen. I just wanted to illustrate with two clear examples. similarly, you can play low from K432 when declarer played low to ten from AT65. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manudude03 Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 I voted for ducking while holding the king. I often say and hear of ducking the ace, when declarer leads towards AQ and plays the ace, you're not going to not duck are you?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 You forgot an option for "who cares" :rolleyes: I suppose if want to be nitpicky, I would argue that "duck" as used in bridge is an intransitive verb, so the proper usage in either case is simply "duck", with no object. For example, "he finessed and I ducked" or "he played up to the king and I ducked". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 You forgot an option for "who cares" :rolleyes: I suppose if want to be nitpicky, I would argue that "duck" as used in bridge is an intransitive verb, so the proper usage in either case is simply "duck", with no object. For example, "he finessed and I ducked" or "he played up to the king and I ducked". To duck is noth a transitive and intransitive verb. South ducks in order to sever declarer's communications.South ducks declarer's king, severing communications.South ducks his king, severing communcations. I think the more common object is declarer's card but as you point out this is ambiguous. Using a possessive pronoun is simple whenever the speaker/writer needs to break an ambiguity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 You can also add a comma, and you have: duck, the king http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/9200000/King-Daffy-Duck-looney-tunes-9228505-366-450.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicklont Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 You can also add a comma, and you have: duck, the king :P :) I guess that closes the file on this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pict Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 I vote (sorry don't vote) that 'duck the King' quite literally means nothing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 IMO, you duck the opponent's card by withholding yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 what a bunch of quackery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 Csaba: English can be a tough language, for sure. What would it mean in Romanian language? DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Csaba: English can be a tough language, for sure. What would it mean in Romanian language? DHL I haven't read much Romanian literature but I think they just say 'play small'. In Hungarian you would say a word (kihagyni) that you'd usually use for "miss" (like miss a goal in soccer/hockey) but now I'm confused as I can't seem to remember if you miss the king or the queen! I think you "miss" the trick usually but they also use both K and Q. my head is spinning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEferBRID Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Your opponent plays low toward the A Q and he " finesses the Q ". YOU hold the K ( behind-- or "over the "-- Q ) and you decide not to overtake but instead you "duck the K " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Duck the king doesn't sound very grammatically correct to me! Voted for the second as I think the first should be 'duck(ing) to the K'. That said, I am not very convinced that the second option is right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I haven't read much Romanian literature but I think they just say 'play small'. In Hungarian you would say a word (kihagyni) that you'd usually use for "miss" (like miss a goal in soccer/hockey) but now I'm confused as I can't seem to remember if you miss the king or the queen! I think you "miss" the trick usually but they also use both K and Q. my head is spinning!The Romanian word is "to delay" and if you want to say "delay the king" of course it means you have the king and you delay the moment that you play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 If you hold Axxx, and dummy on your left has KQxx, and declarer leads towards the King, you have ducked the Ace not the King, so maybe it is the same when sitting over dummy. (Hmm, 'Review the complete topic' button used to open a small new window, now it opens a new tab for me... annoying, but perhaps there is an option to change it back to a window...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I have my opinion on this but wanted to see if people agreed with it :-) but maybe for 655321's example people who like option 2 think you shouldn't say duck the Ace you should say duck from the Ace or just duck? dictionary.com is again unhelpful: 5.to lower suddenly: Duck your head going through that low doorway.6.to avoid or evade (a blow' date=' unpleasant task, etc.); dodge: to duck a hard right; to duck an embarrassing question. 7.to plunge or dip in water momentarily.8.Cards Informal . to play a card lower than (the card led). [/quote'] 5 and 6 seem contradictory for the purposes of the situation and 7 seems too specific. I don't understand 8 fully but it would seem to indicate option number 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 IMO: You duck the king when an opponent plays the king and you withhold your ace.For example, at no-trump, with Axx opposite xx, you might elect to duck the first couple of honour leads. (cf "You duck a blow or a responsibility") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Nigel writes:"....when an opponent plays the King and you withhold your Ace". He called it "duck(ing) the King"... I read it as:You duck ( the trick by withholding ) the Ace. Obviously you play a lower card ( than the K ) when you "duck the Ace" ). And when you don't have the Ace, do you really "duck" the King ?? There is no choice involved.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -But hey, I'm not sure which is grammatically correct, and I usually agree with everything Nigel posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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