Partner opens 1n/t{15-17}

[pirate22]

Teams [hv=d=n&v=n&s=skqj6ha1093d7ckj84]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

dealer North you south...... 1n/t---pass--You ???

 

you play stayman-tranfers {2} or {4} or anything else please explain if other

 

pards hand will be shewn after some answers--if you use stayman 2cl! pard replies 2d.........................

[Cyberyeti]

By our methods 1N-2♣-2♦-3♥ asking about minors, replies are:

 

3♠ minimum no 5m

3N maximum no 5m

4m 5 card suit

[kayin801]

I like this question, I haven't really thought of a good way to look for a minor suit slam when it is likely like this, so I want to hear what others do for it.

[spotlight7]

Hi:

 

1N-2C-2D-3H*=0-1 Ds.

 

Assorted shapes 4414 4315 3415 or 3316 looking for best game.

 

Regards,

Robert

[awm]

Ideally you'd have a way to show three-suiters like this. In my partnerships I do; Elianna and I play Walsh responses to notrump which include:

 

2NT = puppet to 3♣, either signoff in clubs or any GF 4441 hand

.... opener bids 3♣

......... now pass with club signoff, or bid shortage with GF 4441 (so here 3♦)

 

Sam and I play that diamond shortage bids stayman followed by 3♦, which shows specifically 4+♣, 0-1♦, 3-4 in each major and GF.

 

Other posters here seem to have ways to show this hand also, but I thought most people play 1NT-2♣-2♦-3♥ as smolen (showing 5+♠ and 4♥ GF) so it's a little weird to see two different people using 3♥ to show this hand. Of course, you can play whatever notrump systems you want. :(

[bd71]

With one partner I have played that 1N-2C-2D-3C! is artificial ask about minor suit holdings:

 

3D = unspecified 5-card minor (3H follow-up relay, then 3S=clubs, 3N=dia)

3H = 3334

3S = 3343

3N = 4+ in both minors (usually 44, but sometimes 45/54)

 

Let's you stop at 3N if you don't have the right fit.

 

All or most of this was borrowed from

http://www.pattayabridge.com/NTbiddingindex.htm

 

Have no idea if it's anywhere close to optimal, but it worked fine the several times we got to use it.

[Cascade]

We play

 

1NT 3♣ = GF with 4+ clubs and stiff or void diamond and no five-card major.

 

Since on this hand opener has no major he would rebid

 

3♦ with support and nothing wasted in diamonds - we specifically define this as minimum with nothing in the short suit or maximum with the ace in the short suit after discounting any honours in the short suit. Cues etc follow.

 

3NT with a stopper in the short suit preferrably a good stopper but occasionally with nothing else to bid it has to be just one stopper and some hope. 3NT is sometimes bid with support or even with a four-card major when holding three or more stoppers in the short suit. Responder can pull to 4♣ or 5♣ to show extra length and values or distribution. A pull to 4♦ would identify a void.

 

4♣ With support for clubs and a little wasted in diamonds. Cues etc follow.

[Cyberyeti]

Other posters here seem to have ways to show this hand also, but I thought most people play 1NT-2♣-2♦-3♥ as smolen (showing 5+♠ and 4♥ GF) so it's a little weird to see two different people using 3♥ to show this hand. Of course, you can play whatever notrump systems you want. :(

I habitually play a weak no trump, so I see no point in playing Smolen.

[manudude03]

I think I'd struggle with this hand, I guess I'd bid 2♣ then 4♦ which should show 4-5 clubs and a stiff diamond, anything other than 4NT by opener agrees clubs as trumps. I lack anything more sophisticated for this.

[mike777]

1nt=2nt(relay to 3c)(either sign off in clubs or 3 suited slam try)

3c(forced)=

 

 

pass=to play

3d=4414

3h=4144

3s=1444

3nt=4441

[1eyedjack]

Hi

 

I start with 2C response, showing Hearts or balanced hand. Opener rebids 2S or higher with 4 card Heart suit and then I have splinter available.

 

Assuming he does not have 4 card Heart suit then he rebids 2D with max or 2H with min. Either way responder continues with 2S which contains a variety of hands but at this stage simply requires opener to clarify Spade length. Opener has just three bids available: 2N (fewer than 4 Spades), 3C (precisely 4 spades) or 3D (precisely 5 spades). After either 3C or 3D responder splinters in support of Spades. After 2N, responder shows a game forcing 4441 hand with a specific minor short at the level of 3S or beyond (via 3C puppet to 3D). Not to forget that opener has already (by 2D or 2H rebid) clarified whether min or max, responder is reasonably well placed to decide whether to commit beyond 3N.

[awm]

Other posters here seem to have ways to show this hand also, but I thought most people play 1NT-2♣-2♦-3♥ as smolen (showing 5+♠ and 4♥ GF) so it's a little weird to see two different people using 3♥ to show this hand. Of course, you can play whatever notrump systems you want. :(

I habitually play a weak no trump, so I see no point in playing Smolen.

I don't see how this makes a difference. The question is whether you're likely to be better playing in a 5-3 major fit rather than in 3NT, and the relative strength of the two hands (i.e. 12 opposite 12 or 15 opposite 9) shouldn't have much effect on this.

 

If anything, the weak notrump makes it a lot less likely that you have slam interest opposite, which suggests using 1NT-2♣-2♦-3♥ to help find the best game (i.e. smolen) rather than as some sort of slam try (as your 3♥ would seem to be).

[Cyberyeti]

Other posters here seem to have ways to show this hand also, but I thought most people play 1NT-2♣-2♦-3♥ as smolen (showing 5+♠ and 4♥ GF) so it's a little weird to see two different people using 3♥ to show this hand. Of course, you can play whatever notrump systems you want. :(

I habitually play a weak no trump, so I see no point in playing Smolen.

I don't see how this makes a difference. The question is whether you're likely to be better playing in a 5-3 major fit rather than in 3NT, and the relative strength of the two hands (i.e. 12 opposite 12 or 15 opposite 9) shouldn't have much effect on this.

 

If anything, the weak notrump makes it a lot less likely that you have slam interest opposite, which suggests using 1NT-2♣-2♦-3♥ to help find the best game (i.e. smolen) rather than as some sort of slam try (as your 3♥ would seem to be).

A large part of Smolen is to get the strong no trump to play the hand when you're 16 opposite 9 whichever major he decides to play in.

 

If I have 5-4 in the majors, I just transfer to the 5 and then bid the 4 card suit, if we're in game with minimum values the hands are equal in strength, so I don't care who plays it.

[mr1303]

Can I play Keri? If so, 3C, showing approx 4414 shape, GF

 

Not sure what I do if partner bids 3NT

[kgr]

1NT-2♣

2♦-3X

 

2♦=forced

3X=4441 GF with singleton X

(I think this is part of Heeman)

[Zelandakh]

I play a weak NT so this would not come up exactly but anyway...

With 44(14) hands I have 2 options. If I judge a hand good enough for the 4 level then the route is

 

1N - 2C (5cM?)

2D - 3C (4cM?)

3D - 4C (4414/4405)

 

If you are not willing to goto the 4 level then you have a completely different (and rather simple) route.

 

1N - 3H = 4414/4405, weaker than previous sequence

 

In my older non-Puppet scheme then it is simplest just to invoke Baron:-

1N - 2C (4cM?)

2D - 2S (range? 4 card suits?)

 

The simple truth is that most pairs now have some way to show (4441) and (13)(45) hands over a 1NT opening. Playing 4-way transfers makes it simple to use the 3-level bids for this kind of hand without playing anything particularly non-standard. If you do not play them (I don't as it happens) then you need to design your system very carefully.

[Fluffy]

I have 2 ways to bid this

 

1NT-2♣

2♦-2♥ wich obliges 2♠ to show 4M5m 3-1 hand or an specifin 4441

 

 

1NT-2♣

2♦-2♠ wich starts relay.

[Free]

1NT-2♣

2♦-3X

 

2♦=forced

3X=4441 GF with singleton X

(I think this is part of Heeman)

No it's not. Heeman will start with 1NT-2♦-2♥-2♠ showing 44+M :rolleyes:

[Valardent]

I play a Heeman variation.

 

1NT 3♣ (force to 3♦)

3♦ 3NT exactly 4414 not minimum (at least a good 11) but NF

[ONEferBRID]

There is a "distribution-ask" system where Responder does not show his shape but asks for Opener's distribution:

 

1NT - 2S! ( GF and asks Opener to show distribution )

 

The series of replies -- all below 3NT --allows Opener to show:

  4-4 in the Majors

  4-4 in Major/minor and identifying each suit

  5 minor or

  any 4 3 3 3 ( and next identifying the 4 card suit )

 

Responder can either show his fit if found

or sign-off in 3NT. Also, Responder is not restricted to any shape.

 

One restriction is that Opener will not hold a 5 card Major.

[1eyedjack]

There is a "distribution-ask" system where Responder does not show his shape but asks for Opener's distribution:

 

1NT - 2S! ( GF and asks Opener to show distribution )

 

The series of replies -- all below 3NT --allows Opener to show:

  4-4 in the Majors

  4-4 in Major/minor and identifying each suit

  5 minor or

  any 4 3 3 3 ( and next identifying the 4 card suit )

 

Responder can either show his fit if found

or sign-off in 3NT. Also, Responder is not restricted to that shape.

 

One restriction is that Opener will not hold a 5 card Major.

What this system appears NOT to be able to show, as far as I can tell from this post, is the extent to which opener has or has not got wasted values opposite responder's shortage

[ONEferBRID]

There is a "distribution-ask" system where Responder does not show his shape but asks for Opener's distribution:

 

1NT - 2S! ( GF and asks Opener to show distribution )

 

The series of replies -- all below 3NT --allows Opener to show:

  4-4 in the Majors

  4-4 in Major/minor and identifying each suit

  5 minor or

  any 4 3 3 3 ( and next identifying the 4 card suit )

 

Responder can either show his fit if found

or sign-off in 3NT.  Also, Responder is not restricted to that shape.

 

One restriction is that Opener will not hold a 5 card Major.

What this system appears NOT to be able to show, as far as I can tell from this post, is the extent to which opener has or has not got wasted values opposite responder's shortage

True... about wasted values.

I admit, I have only seen it used a few times.

[aguahombre]

The thing about Adam's use of 2NT (which has been around for many years), is that IMO Responder should be describing, not asking.

 

That is why the 2NT (either a club bust or 4X1 slammish) is effective.

[ONEferBRID]

Here is a 4 5 0 4 hand that would go thru Smolen and end up in a horrible 3NT contract ( down on the normal Diam lead ) :

 

Q T x x

A T 9 x x

void

Q J x x

 

A x x

Q x

Q x x

A K x x x

 

Now here is a "distribution-ask" sequence:

 

------pass

1NT - 2S!

3S! - 5C

 

where 3S! = 5c and denies a 4 card Major.

( 3NT! would show 5d and no 4 card Major ).

( and 3C etc would have started to show cheapest bid 4 card suits ).

[1eyedjack]

Here is a 4 5 0 4 hand that would go thru Smolen and end up in a horrible 3NT contract ( down on the normal Diam lead ) :

 

Q T x x

A T 9 x x

void

Q J x x

 

A x x

Q x

Q x x

A K x x x

 

Now here is a "distribution-ask" sequence:

 

------pass

1NT - 2S!

3S!  - 5C

 

where 3S! = 5c and denies a 4 card Major.

( 3NT! would show 5d and no 4 card Major ).

( and 3C etc would have started to show cheapest bid 4 card suits ).

Well, give opener instead something like

 

xxx

Kx

KQx

AKxxx

 

and you have just gone down in 5C when 3NT while not stony cold has at least the best chance of any game.

 

Or give opener instead something like

 

Kx

KJx

AJx

Kxxxx

 

and you might regret not being in 4H, especially at Matchpoints.

 

I agree that Smolen does not handle this hand well, but then I am not a fan of Smolen for pretty much this reason: It does not get the minor suit shape across.

 

That does not make the distribution ask the answer to your problems, as these alternative hands demonstrate.

 

A sensible approach would still use responder to describe, but describe something a bit more than Smolen achieves.

 

In my preferred methods I would have to leave some ambiguity between 4-5-1-3 and 4-5-0-4 before committing beyond 3N. A price I have reluctantly to pay as the lesser of other evils