inquiry Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 [hv=d=e&v=n&n=skqhq982d732cak98&s=s97653h43dk9cqj76]133|200|Scoring: MPSubmitted by Hanoi5 Bidding Comments: East opens 2♠, EW pass after that (except West doubles 2NT or 3NT for penalty) Hanoi comments: 15. A very interesting deal where the best action is to let them play. East opens a weak 2S and West holds the bomb but decides to pass all the time (unless N/S decide to hang themselves in NT, in which case West will double). 3C, 10; 2S(N), 9; 2NT(X), 3[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 We hung ourselves in NT, but the double made it very easy to retreat into clubs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 3♣ here via lebensohl after gib doubled 2♠ in balancing position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 How is defending 2S a 9? It will lose to everyone in 3C, which is probably half the field. The bidding script was really weird btw, why would West double a 2NT Lebensohl but not double any 3-level contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I'm not sure but it seems like 3C by south is better than 3C by north just because given the X of 2N and the 2S opener we know that west will have a spade void and the DA and likely the HAK. Seems like having him on lead can only be good, rather than the other guy. Also, I think defending 2S doubled or undoubled is bad. 2S is going to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayin801 Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 3♣ here via lebensohl after gib doubled 2♠ in balancing position. This. Pass was REALLY tempting except it's a bidding contest ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I think passing with 97xxx w/w is horrible when you have a reasonable alternative QJxx and a reasonable suit. I mean aside from the obv them making 2S (which is not unlikely at all with this horrible trump stack...), we might only beat them 1 when we can make 110 in general. I feel like I'm really aggro at passing these doubles but it would not occur to me on this hand. Just because you have 5 trumps doesn't mean you have tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgoodwinsr Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 JLOGIC is absolutely right about passing the double of two spades -- this from someone who did that, and paid the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 JLOGIC is absolutely right about passing the double of two spades -- this from someone who did that, and paid the price. I definitely considered it for a long time because of the shape of my hand, but then I started picturing hands I'd need partner to have to set them, and decided to leb to 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Agree that 3C from the south should beat 3C from the north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I'm not sure but it seems like 3C by south is better than 3C by north just because given the X of 2N and the 2S opener we know that west will have a spade void and the DA and likely the HAK. Seems like having him on lead can only be good, rather than the other guy. Also, I think defending 2S doubled or undoubled is bad. 2S is going to make. Yeah, but how many tricks do you think you make in clubs. Very likely only 6 against 140, I think it's quite likely one of the hearts is offside, I'd have a crack at 3♣ with void, AKxxx, AQJxx, xxx if my weak 2s are fairly sound and get a trump on the table. And yes 3♣ by S is a lot better than 3♣ by N, but not that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I don't see how pass is tempting in a bidding contest. Maybe partner is - AKxx Axx AKxxxx?! I think probably 3♣ by south should just be a point more than by north. And defending 2♠ or 2♠X should be almost nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 If you pass a takeout double, catch partner with a balanced hand with two spade honors and no 5 card suit, and they are playing for overtricks, then your pass probably was not very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Not to mention it's a reopening double not even direct seat? I mean, lol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted September 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I agree with the concept that the scores suggested need adjusting. Here is how this one was bid, and the scores I have assigned. 3CN jdonn/gib3CN ant590/cryzeejim3CN bid_em_up/TylerE3CN sohcahtoa/east4evil3CN Karlson/threenobob3CN olegru/driver7333CN bluecalm/redds3CN MBodell/Javabean3CS gnasher/catch223CS hanp/jlall3CS cherdano/rogerclee3CS awn/elianna3CS Hrothgar/Free2SE peachy/Ig622SEx wackojack/flycycle2SEx TimG/TgoodwinSr 3CS = 93CN = 62SE = 22SEx = 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I'm curious why 3♣ won't also be doubled. If I were West and had decided to pass partner's 2♠, I'd be doubling 3♣ (and leading a trump if I was on lead -- even though that doesn't seem to be best double dummy, it still leads to 300). Even if you don't consider a double of 3♣, some EW will score +150 defending 3♣ while they would only score +110 or +140 playing in spades. It seems to me that defending 2♠ (undoubled) should score better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Huh, 3♣ by north isn't THAT much better than 3♣ by south. East is probably leading a red suit, and if the diamond was off it's not like west was usually going to lead the ace of diamonds anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Maybe I'm confused, but isn't 3C by south better than 3C by north? 3C by south has the hand with the spade void and red honors on lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 lol yes I said it wrong but I mean the same argument, I think the difference is small not 3 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 lol yes I said it wrong but I mean the same argument, I think the difference is small not 3 points. I don't understand what you mean. Currently 3CN is rated has higher than 3CS. My point is not to argue the degree of that difference, just that I think 3CS>3CN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I was arguing the degree of difference but I also stated it wrong. So I'm just correcting that part but still arguing the degree of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I assume Ben just made two typos, 3CS is obviously a little better than 3CN and not the other way around. I agree with Josh that the difference shouldn't be this large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I'm curious why 3♣ won't also be doubled. If I were West and had decided to pass partner's 2♠, I'd be doubling 3♣ (and leading a trump if I was on lead -- even though that doesn't seem to be best double dummy, it still leads to 300). Even if you don't consider a double of 3♣, some EW will score +150 defending 3♣ while they would only score +110 or +140 playing in spades. It seems to me that defending 2♠ (undoubled) should score better. Completely agree, if E has a top heart, you'll always take 150 out of 3♣, if W has AQJ or AQ10 of diamonds plus AK of hearts presumably 0553 he should be doubling, so the script suggests he doesn't have that. I think 2♠ undoubled is better than 3♣ and only loses when W has ♥AK and E has ♦Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgoodwinsr Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 And what about -500 vs. -470? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 And what about -500 vs. -470? That doesn't matter, it's in the script west doubles 2NT therefore if it's not in the script that west doubles 3♣ then he doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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