Round 3, Board 8

[inquiry]

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=sa865hk42d7caqj85&s=sk974ha973d82ck63]133|200|Scoring: MP

Submitted by Hanoi5

 

Bidding Script: West opens a gambling 3NT. If this is doubled, east will bid 4♣ as a run out and if necessary, west will correct to 4♦. If it is not doubled, east will pass. If it comes back to east doubled, he will repeat the 4♣ run out, and west, if necessarywill correct to 4♦.

 

Hanoi Comments. West will open with a gambling 3NT and we’ll get to check how nicely pairs can cope with this troublesome yet infrequent opening bid. If 3NT gets doubled East will bid 4C and West 4D. If South has to choose between the Majors, is this a toss-up problem or is there a ‘rule’ to follow? 4S, 10; 4Dx, 7; 4D, 5; 4H, 6; 5C, 1.[/hv]

[hrothgar]

I thought that this was the most interesting hand of the set

 

Our auction started

 

(3N) - X - (4♣) - X

(4♦) - X - (P) - 4♠

 

Free's 4♠ bid obviously worked very well. I was curious how he picked the "right" trump suit. He explained that he picked Spades because he hand a first round Heart control and was worried about the possibility of the Spade ruff in a Heart contract...

[JLOGIC]

There is no score for 3N undoubled but I saw a few people play that. It should be below 4H and above 5C since 5C has very little play and 4H makes on 4-2 hearts basically (if you're lucky you could make on 5-1 hearts).

 

FWIW I messed up this hand really badly. Our auction started:

 

3N X 4C X

4D X p 4H

p ?

 

So far I think all of those bids are good. I passed without thinking, but really I am supposed to bid 4S over 4H with 4315 since partner should be 4-5 or 4-4 in the majors. Very bad ;)

[kayin801]

My pair ended up in 5♠ which can't possibly be a 0, as it's definitely better than a lot of other contracts. Just as an FYI.

[JLOGIC]

5S is quite good actually.

[tgoodwinsr]

Is it really so clear for North to double 4D (after 3NT-Dbl.-4C-Dbl.4D-?). Maybe it is easier if he passes and lets his partner double with equal majors.

[inquiry]

Jdonn and GIB were unfairly disadvantaged on this board, as GIB does not understand Gambling 3NT.

 

Thus, on board 8 they will get either 50%, or the average of their other 15 boards.

[Free]

I thought that this was the most interesting hand of the set

 

Our auction started

 

(3N) - X - (4♣) - X

(4♦) - X - (P) - 4♠

 

Free's 4♠ bid obviously worked very well. I was curious how he picked the "right" trump suit. He explained that he picked Spades because he hand a first round Heart control and was worried about the possibility of the Spade ruff in a Heart contract...

Yeah, I'm not sure if this reasoning makes real sense actually, but it worked this time. :D

[hanp]

I passed without thinking, but really I am supposed to bid 4S over 4H with 4315 since partner should be 4-5 or 4-4 in the majors. Very bad

 

Not true. It took me ages to bid 4H and you knew I was 4-4 in the majors. I'm glad you passed.

[JLOGIC]

I passed without thinking, but really I am supposed to bid 4S over 4H with 4315 since partner should be 4-5 or 4-4 in the majors. Very bad

 

Not true. It took me ages to bid 4H and you knew I was 4-4 in the majors. I'm glad you passed.

It doesn't matter if I get UI that tells me you have something if the AI I have also tells me you have that heh.

[jdonn]

Inquiry have you learned nothing from the multi fiasco of round 1 :D

[cherdanno]

Jdonn and GIB were unfairly disadvantaged on this board, as GIB does not understand Gambling 3NT.

 

Thus, on board 8 they will get either 50%, or the average of their other 15 boards.

Clee and Cherdano were unfairly disadvantaged on this board, as cherdano did not understand how to defend against Gambling 3NT. :) :)

 

Seriously, I was worried that a direct double would be more majors-oriented, and so I passed, waiting for my chance to make a takeout double when it got back to me. Well, East's psychic pass, and Roger's normal passout meant I didn't get a 2nd chance.

 

Anyway, double of 3NT should just be takeout of opener's minor.

[inquiry]

4SS TimG/TgoodwinSr

4SS Hrothgar/Free

4SN bid_em_up/TylerE

4SN gnasher/catch22

4sN Karlson/threenobob

4DW** jdonn/gib

5SN sohcahtoa/east4evil

4HS hanp/jlall

3NW cherdano/rogerclee

3NW peachy/Ig62

3NW ant590/cryzeejim

3NW awn/elianna

3NW MBodell/Javabean

5CN wackojack/flycycle

6CN olegru/driver733

6CN bluecalm/redds

 

Scores are a little different from those suggested. I could be persuades to make some adjustments in these.

 

4S = 10

4D = 6 (temporarily, since GIB doesn't understand gambling 3NT)

5S = 5

4H = 4

3N = 3

5C = 2

6C = 0

[kayin801]

Maybe nitpicking, but can you tell me why 5S is only 5? It makes the same score as 4S on a 3-2 break and on 60% of 1=4 breaks, when the 3NT bidder has a stiff honor, which is ~70% of the time total? Though I guess a bit less with 7=3 known cards, but it doesn't reduce it THAT much.

[kayin801]

Also don't understand why 3NTW is a worse score for N/S than 4DW (4DXW I can understand)

 

Edit: Just saw it was temporary, ignore me

[TimG]

There is no score for 3N undoubled but I saw a few people play that. It should be below 4H and above 5C since 5C has very little play and 4H makes on 4-2 hearts basically (if you're lucky you could make on 5-1 hearts).

 

FWIW I messed up this hand really badly. Our auction started:

 

3N X 4C X

4D X p 4H

p ?

 

So far I think all of those bids are good. I passed without thinking, but really I am supposed to bid 4S over 4H with 4315 since partner should be 4-5 or 4-4 in the majors. Very bad :)

I'm curious: at what point does advancer bid a 5-card major?

 

After 3N-DBL-4♣, advancer would bid 4♥ or 4♠ with 5 in the bid major and fewer than four in the other.

 

So, 3N-DBL-4♣-DBL suggests no 5-card major and nothing much else?

 

Back to intervenor, after 3N-DBL-4♣-DBL-4♦, intervenor would bid similarly: 4M now would show a five-card suit and pass would show no 5-card major. Should the difference between pass and double be that one shows equal major suit length and the other shows unequal?

 

Back to advancer, after 3N-DBL-4♣-DBL-4♦-DBL/P-P is seems that advancer can place the contract when intervenor has shown equal length (or at least he knows what the longest fit is), so intervenor's double should be the equal length showing call over 4♦. Let's assume intervenor passes over 4♦ showing unequal length, now advancer can double to get intervenor to bid his longer major and bid his own longer major with a clear preference.

 

Is that close to right?

[gnasher]

We have a useful agreement for this sort of auction: when pass is forcing but we haven't agreed a suit, pass-and-pull shows doubt about strain.

 

Our sequence was

 

3NT dbl 4♣ dbl

4♦ pass pass dbl

pass 4♠

 

The delayed 4♠ suggested only four spades.

[TimG]

We have a useful agreement for this sort of auction: when pass is forcing but we haven't agreed a suit, pass-and-pull shows doubt about strain.

 

Our sequence was

 

3NT dbl 4♣ dbl

4♦ pass pass dbl

pass 4♠

 

The delayed 4♠ suggested only four spades.

Would pass after 3N-DBL-4♣ have been forcing?

[gnasher]

Would pass after 3N-DBL-4♣ have been forcing?

I think there's a good case for playing it as forcing, but we don't do so.

 

The double of 4♣ set up a forcing pass.