2-part ATB

[dkharty]

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=sxxhatxxdaqxcakxx&s=sakqxhxdkt9xxxcxx]133|200|Scoring: MP

p-1D-2H-p

p-X-all pass[/hv]

 

+800 was obviously not the best score available to NS.

 

1. Agree/disagree with North's decision to penalty pass?

2. Agree/disagree with South's reopening double? If disagree, what would you choose?

[keylime]

A big fan of the penalty pass admittedly. Squarish hand, decent values.

 

The double....gotta compete. It's MPs. You have two places to play.

 

After balancing, tho, that I'm still thinking over. Admittedly, pass is attractive (could be wide open in spades for a game contract, and pard may be on a 3-2-4-4 hand too).

[hanp]

Keylime's response is a contradiction. He loves the pass, but is not sure if he passes the reopening double. That doesn't make any sense. On a bad day partner has 3 hearts after your pass and you play 2H undoubled while you are surely strong enough to make game. But this wasn't a bad day, it was a good day: you risked a pass but partner doubled. How can you not pass now?

 

+800 seems fine, bit unlucky you couldn't take 1100. You don't always get the best possible result on every hand. But you'll be beating those that don't get to slam.

[pooltuna]

1)agree

2)agree

 

It is the nature of bridge that sometimes good bids are punished and bad bids rewarded.

[Phil]

I would be happy with my 800. Did a lot of tables reach slam or are you trying to improve your 8 to an 11.5?

[dkharty]

I would be happy with my 800. Did a lot of tables reach slam or are you trying to improve your 8 to an 11.5?

Several tables bid the slam, one bid the grand.

[mr1303]

Good standard of bridge at your club...

[nigel_k]

I agree with South but not North. When partner has short hearts you will be very close to slam and otherwise you run the risk he may not reopen. Pass would be fine with KTxx instead of ATxx though.

[whereagles]

Good standard of bridge at your club...

indeed. I wouldn't expect many to reach the slam, let alone the grand.

[junyi_zhu]

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=sxxhatxxdaqxcakxx&s=sakqxhxdkt9xxxcxx]133|200|Scoring: MP

p-1D-2H-p

p-X-all pass[/hv]

 

+800 was obviously not the best score available to NS.

 

1. Agree/disagree with North's decision to penalty pass?

2. Agree/disagree with South's reopening double? If disagree, what would you choose?

Pass is bad. Gotta bid 3C here because it is your hand. After 3C, at least it is not difficult to bid 6D. 7D might not be easy.

[rogerclee]

I think north made a reasonable choice, 3C is also reasonable.

[Siegmund]

I am happy with the penalty pass. I'd go so far as to call it obvious. There's no reason for North to have slam on his mind.

 

Tossup whether I bid 2S or double with the South hand. He has an unusually powerful hand for offense. Either action could work on any given day.

 

Edited to add: completely obvious pass the second time having passed the first. The FIRST time around, I can see someone bidding - vul vs not I might choose to jump to 3NT rather than try to defend (or do something unlimited but less descriptive like 3C or 3H.)

[Phil]

I think north made a reasonable choice, 3C is also reasonable.

I think 3♣ is more reasonable if 1♦ promises some shape.

[rduran1216]

I wonder if people would expect south to dbl with this

 

AQxx

xx

KJxx

Qxx

[manudude03]

I wonder if people would expect south to dbl with this

 

AQxx

xx

KJxx

Qxx

Yes, obvious double.

[rduran1216]

ok well how bout

 

KJx

Kx

K109xx

QJx

 

 

I mean, we have to pin down how bad south can be and still dbl.

 

Because otherwise North has to move towards 6 or 7D after the reopening dbl

 

I think passing ok at first, but once South reopens, I think N has to move.

[JLOGIC]

I think passing ok at first, but once South reopens, I think N has to move.

How does this keep getting said?

 

If you pass, you are taking a risk that partner will pass out 2H. You are taking this risk because you hope the rewards of defending 2H X will be big enough to offset it, and the risk is small given your heart length.

 

However, if you pass and then bid over a reopening double, you have gained nothing. You have just risked defending 2H undoubled for no reason, except to have a worse constructive auction.

 

Personally I think passing for penalties on ATxx and a prime 17 count with AQx of partners suit is ludicrous. ATxx is not a strong enough stack to feel confident that partner will almost always reopen, and it's not a good enough stack to feel confident that defending 2H X is right even when he does reopen, imo.

[rduran1216]

I think passing ok at first, but once South reopens, I think N has to move.

How does this keep getting said?

 

If you pass, you are taking a risk that partner will pass out 2H. You are taking this risk because you hope the rewards of defending 2H X will be big enough to offset it, and the risk is small given your heart length.

 

However, if you pass and then bid over a reopening double, you have gained nothing. You have just risked defending 2H undoubled for no reason, except to have a worse constructive auction.

 

Personally I think passing for penalties on ATxx and a prime 17 count with AQx of partners suit is ludicrous. ATxx is not a strong enough stack to feel confident that partner will almost always reopen, and it's not a good enough stack to feel confident that defending 2H X is right even when he does reopen, imo.

This is where I'm going with the original discussion.

 

What 1D opener won't be odds on for 6D or 7D.

 

You have AK A outside diamonds, and AQx of ur partner's suit.

 

I'm just fishing for a holding South can have where 6D isn't an absolute lay down.

 

I mean you'd need clear spade loser and clear heart loser without any play at a pitch, that seems anti-percentage.

 

upon further review I wouldn't pass 2H, I mean ur staring at 6D unless partner has an awful 4432ish hand.

[keylime]

It's not really a contradiction.

 

It's more of a "what would pard make a balancing double on" and bidding appropriately. If he's aggressive, then the penalty pass stands out, under the "take the sure money" situation, and getting +800 often scores top boards at club bridge. If however he balances on decent hands, then, yes, I'd have a think.

[the hog]

North is much too good to pass. In my opinion the pass is a very poor call.

[Free]

North is much too good to pass. In my opinion the pass is a very poor call.

Wow I agree with Hog! That's 1 discussion less. :)

[jdonn]

Any of the "I hate passers" saying what they would do, and on the next round after likely continuations?

[kayin801]

Any of the "I hate passers" saying what they would do, and on the next round after likely continuations?

3♣, then over 3X I'd bid 4♦, which hopefully shows a slam interested hand with 3 card ♦ support. With 4 card ♦ support I would have started with 3♥, I think, and then bid 4♦.

 

Partner might not play us for a balanced hand and might be expecting longer clubs, but we weren't stopping short of small slam on this auction anyway (if partner has a light opener then hopefully he/she has long diamonds and shape, so 6♦ is easy)

[Fluffy]

Any of the "I hate passers" saying what they would do, and on the next round after likely continuations?

finally someone that makes sense, passing might not be great, but given the poor alternatives you might as well risk it.

 

 

Rduran if I understand it correctly you claim that pass to hear double gives you enough confidence to reach slam, that sounds like bidding 1NT-2NT with quantitative when partner will answer keycards to 4NT.

[junyi_zhu]

Any of the "I hate passers" saying what they would do, and on the next round after likely continuations?

....

3C 3D(5 or more D, not suitable for 3NT)

3H(two way cuebid, either C one suiter, or D fit, doubts in 3NT) 3S(S value)

4D(D fit and slam interest, without slam interest, responder can bid 5D) 4H(RKC, a little bit pushy, since partner denies a lot of H value, it looks not bad)

4N(3-0) 5C(Q?)

6C(CK and DQ) 7D.