before there was smollen

[babalu1997]

this has happned 2times this week.

i have 5 spades and 4 hearts

 

this is what happened

 

1nt

2clubs

2 diamonds

3 hearts

4 hearts

 

now this seems to me to be impossible

 

should i simply bid 4 spades and assume partner does not know smollen and thus guarantee 7 cards in spades?

[Stephen Tu]

Smolen is an optional convention, you probably shouldn't be assuming it's standard outside of a regular partnership. 4 spades to me seems asking for further misunderstanding, just try to scramble home in your 4-3 heart fit.

[ggwhiz]

As Stephen said. The default agreement is reverse Smolen (Standard American).

[bucky]

Agree. Assume no smolen unless specifically agreed by the partnership. 4♠ here without discussion is a cuebid in support of hearts. A sensible partner should never pass it.

[Phil]

It depends on your perceived level of your partner, although it also depends on your partner's perceived level of you.

 

With a good partner, which would include almost all of the forum regulars, Smolen is absolutely assumed. If I'm playing with an expert or someone that calls themselves world class and for the first few hands I have a sense they know what they are doing, I would also assume Smolen is on.

[Stephen Tu]

With a good partner, which would include almost all of the forum regulars, Smolen is absolutely assumed

 

I don't really agree with this, unless your general system agreement was "bridge world standard" , since BWS explicitly includes Smolen.

 

New partnership, even with an expert, I always make it a point to confirm Smolen or not. If I forgot to confirm it, I'd simply avoid the call and bid 3nt after stayman. And if partner did it to me, I'd just bid 3nt and try to make it/steal a trick to get the matchpoints if necessary.

 

I just think it's too dangerous a convention to be assumed even with a good partner, it takes 2 secs to confirm when filling out a card.

[jdonn]

With a good partner, which would include almost all of the forum regulars, Smolen is absolutely assumed

 

I don't really agree with this, unless your general system agreement was "bridge world standard" , since BWS explicitly includes Smolen.

 

New partnership, even with an expert, I always make it a point to confirm Smolen or not. If I forgot to confirm it, I'd simply avoid the call and bid 3nt after stayman. And if partner did it to me, I'd just bid 3nt and try to make it/steal a trick to get the matchpoints if necessary.

 

I just think it's too dangerous a convention to be assumed even with a good partner, it takes 2 secs to confirm when filling out a card.

It's absolutely expert standard undiscussed. Among 'advanced' (real life, not BBO) I would always assume it too and can't recall anyone not assuming it, until you say you don't now.

 

On BBO I would never assume it if I didn't know my partner or anything about them, no matter what skill level they claim.

[Siegmund]

I just think it's too dangerous a convention to be assumed even with a good partner, it takes 2 secs to confirm when filling out a card.

 

Yup.

 

With most adv+ partners the conversation will go "Smolen? Yes" about as fast as it goes "Jacoby and Texas? Yes" .. but if they don't say it, you don't check the box, and if you haven't checked the box, you aren't playing it.

 

Amazed TBH that anyone would assume it would be on if there hadn't been discussion. But not the first time I've been amazed on this forum.

[hanp]

If I was playing with a random clayton or so I would definitely assume smolen. Playing with a random Cascade I would also bid smolen, hoping that he wouldn't pass out 2C just to be difficult.

[gordontd]

With a good partner, which would include almost all of the forum regulars, Smolen is absolutely assumed. If I'm playing with an expert or someone that calls themselves world class and for the first few hands I have a sense they know what they are doing, I would also assume Smolen is on.

You shouldn't unless they happen to be American.

[helene_t]

With a random North American expert I would assume Smolen, but there is always the risk that he looks at my European flag and concludes that I probably don't play Smolen.

 

With a random non-North American expert I would not assume anything. As Stephen says, just avoid the call. Bid 3NT after Stayman.

[Cyberyeti]

With a good partner, which would include almost all of the forum regulars, Smolen is absolutely assumed. If I'm playing with an expert or someone that calls themselves world class and for the first few hands I have a sense they know what they are doing, I would also assume Smolen is on.

You shouldn't unless they happen to be American.

Indeed, among Europeans, particularly those that play a weak no trump a lot of the time, (as there's little point in ensuring the NT opener plays the hand when you've both got 13 points) I'd suggest it's fairly uncommon.

[Roupoil]

One more time, it seems like French are not European people for bridge matters. I would assume Smolen without discussion facing any adv+ French player (but of course, French people don't call it Smolen, but "chassé-croisé").

[gordontd]

With a random North American expert I would assume Smolen, but there is always the risk that he looks at my European flag and concludes that I probably don't play Smolen.

The replies in this thread suggest that you probably shouldn't expect an American partner to be aware of the differences.

[Free]

I would always assume Smolen, unless playing with a BBO Expert from Turkey. They bid everything natural, they might even consider 2♣ natural and pass!

[bucky]

I would always assume Smolen, unless playing with a BBO Expert from Turkey. They bid everything natural, they might even consider 2♣ natural and pass!

Not really. I saw majority of Turkish players (out of my very limited sample size) like to bid 1NT over partner's 1m opening, holding 4-4 in both majors. That hardly feels natural to me...

[kenberg]

If playing with an expert ... But then why is an expert playing with me? Keeping with recent replies I might say "Unless he is from Turkey" but really I am fine with my Turkish friends and hope to stay fine with them. My preference on BBO is that undiscussed bids that reasonably could be natural are natural. Sure it is, in my view, better to jump in the four card suit to show 5-4 gf. But jumping in the five card suit is playable.

 

This falls into a general pattern. "Everyone" plays Bergen don't they? Not really, I prefer not to and if someone insists I want to know if it is on over a double, on by a passed hand, etc. Speaking of passed hands, consider the uncontested: Pass-1S-2D is what? I prefer it to be diamonds. Speaking of experts, so does Mike Lawrence. 2C is Drury, 2D is diamonds. Undiscussed, even 2C is suspect but I probably would not pass.

 

Watching jec the other day there was a somewhat unusual auction where Jimmy (he will perhaps excuse the informality) took some time for thought. A kib asked if they had an agreement about this sequence. Another kib responded "If Jimmy passes, they will have an agreement after this hand". He didn't pass.

 

Playing online, or offline, with someone you don't know can cause problems. Duh. My preference is to err on the side of interpreting potentially natural bids as natural.

[mgoetze]

If you are planning to assume that 2♣, let alone 2♦, is some form of Drury with a pickup partner, then you had better be pretty sure that he is from North America...

[kenberg]

If you are planning to assume that 2♣, let alone 2♦, is some form of Drury with a pickup partner, then you had better be pretty sure that he is from North America...

I am mostly planning on making my best guess and hoping I am right, but I take your point. Playing pick-up online is an instructive adventure.

[pooltuna]

If you are planning to assume that 2♣, let alone 2♦, is some form of Drury with a pickup partner, then you had better be pretty sure that he is from North America...

or hold a lot of ♣s :)

[barmar]

Playing with an online partner without discussion, I generally wouldn't assume much beyond SAYC, and even within that I'd have to be careful (back in my OKbridge days, it seemed like most people who claimed to play SAYC didn't realize it includes Jacoby 2NT).

 

Even if you're playing with an expert partner, who you can reasonably assumes knows Smolen, what makes you think he'll assume that YOU play it? Both of you are guessing what the other player knows and prefers to play, and the smart money is on natural, except for some nearly universal conventions. If you have some conventions listed in your profile, he may assume you're playing them (this is a good place to put things like RKCB), but that's about it.