Are you a Man or a Moyse?

[Echognome]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sa84ha954daq972c9]133|100|Scoring: MP

1♦ - 1♠;

2♠ - 3NT;

?[/hv]

 

Which game?

[Phil]

This one.

 

I can't imagine pulling at MPs.

[karlson]

Surely partner could have asked something about our hand? This is an odd decision to have to make without knowing the methods.

[Echognome]

Surely partner could have asked something about our hand? This is an odd decision to have to make without knowing the methods.

You can assume partner has a 4-card spade suit and a relatively balanced hand. He is also not interested in slam opposite your 2♠ call.

[jdonn]

Partner has only 4 spades. Therefore he has 3 hearts at most. Also he probably doesn't have a good diamond fit, certainly not more than 3 unless his clubs are like AQ doubleton or something. Therefore I pass. If I was 3154 there would be a LOT better case to pull since hearts would be a big concern.

[Echognome]

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sk975hqj6dk53ca52&w=sjt3ht832dj6cj873&e=sq62hk7dt84ckqt64&s=sa84ha954daq972c9]399|300|Scoring: MP

1♦ - 1♠;

2♠ - 3NT;

All Pass[/hv]

 

Lead: ♣6

Result: +460 (didn't get the best defense...)

MP: 9 out of 11

 

Note that spades is where I'd want to be both single dummy and double dummy.

[hanp]

Maybe partner could have asked, and if we can show short clubs, he can decide to bid 4S. I don't think it should be our decision to bid 4S here.

[Echognome]

Maybe partner could have asked, and if we can show short clubs, he can decide to bid 4S. I don't think it should be our decision to bid 4S here.

What auction do you suggest? Do you think partner should bid any differently?

[hanp]

It depends on your agreements of course.

 

I'd ask, then you would show a maximum 3-card raise with short clubs, and I'd bid 4S with the north hand.

[mikeh]

A lot of pairs use 2N over 2S as forcing (not to game) and asking about the nature of the raise. The simple method I use wouldn't (however) allow me to show a stiff club.....my bid would be 3♦, maximum with 3 trump.

 

Having said that, that would strongly convey to partner that I held 5 diamonds and a stiff in a round suit.....I almost always rebid 1N with 13-14 hcp and 3=2=5=3 or 3=3=5=2, and would never raise with a maximum 3=4=4=2 or 3=2=4=4 etc since I want to limit my strength and show the balanced nature of the hand rather than raise...we have lots of method over 1N rebids so choosing the right game or slam or high partscore is easy...of course, we may be in the wrong low partscore.

 

Whether that makes 4♠ attractive on this hand is problematic.....he will know that we likely have only one stopper in one of the side suits and that they rate to hold 9 cards therein and so will lead it, but on the other hand, he can probably see lots of opportunites for 9 fast winners, and a bad spade break may doom 4♠.

[kenrexford]

1♦-1♠

2♠-2NT(asking)

3♥(maximum 3451)-4♠

 

That seems easy, with my methods:

 

2NT asks. Opener bids:

 

3♣ = minimum with three spades and either 3451 or 3514. 3♦ would then ask for specifics (bid 3♥ with hearts = 3451; don't bid hearts but bid 3♠ without hearts = 3154)

3♥ = natural = 3451 maximum

3♦ = maximum without hearts = 3154 maximum

3♠ = minimum but four piece

3NT+ = various maximum 4-piece options

[karlson]

awm-style methods where new suit is GF will also work fine. 1d-1s-2s-3h-4h-4s. Doesn't distinguish min from max but at least the shape is known.

 

Not sure how han distinguishes all the hands in his structure. Presumably a second relay of some sort after 2n-response. edit: I see Ken posted something close to what I was imagining -- seems ok to me.

[affe82]

just a question: doesn't 3N ask me to pick the most suitable game versus a gf "balanced-ish" type of hand w 4 spades?

if I have 4c !s I will always convert and it is my opinion that I rarely raise p's suit if not unbalanced. That I am 5431 should come as no surprise.

Having 3aces looks good for the moysian but the pips in spades are poor and the diamond suit looks awesome for quick tricks in NT.

Over all I choose pass and fail to see why I need a gadget to show p what I should have shown already. Am I offtrack completely?

[jamegumb]

Wouldn't partner have bid the same way with, say, Qxxx in spades and AQx in clubs instead of his actual holdings?

 

Not seeing how this is more than a guess.

[aguahombre]

Simple soul here. If I raise to 2S on 3, I already think it it better for suit play. Partner needn't ask.

 

However, it does seem that the max is 4S and 4NT does make. two spades, two hearts, five diamonds, and a club. I guess if you play the spades to break 3-3 there is a way to make 5S; but....

[Echognome]

Simple soul here. If I raise to 2S on 3, I already think it it better for suit play. Partner needn't ask.

 

However, it does seem that the max is 4S and 4NT does make. two spades, two hearts, five diamonds, and a club. I guess if you play the spades to break 3-3 there is a way to make 5S; but....

Very easy to make 5♠. Ruff two clubs with the short spade hand and draw the ♠A and K leaving two spades outstanding. Then just run winners. As the ♥K is onside, 11 tricks seem easy.

 

In order to make 6♠, then you need spades 3-3.

[655321]

Very easy to make 5♠.  Ruff two clubs with the short spade hand and draw the ♠A and K leaving two spades outstanding.  Then just run winners.  As the ♥K is onside, 11 tricks seem easy.

That isn't so easy, you have entry problems.

[aguahombre]

Yep, I tried the variations, and only low trump ducked at trick two ---playing for 3-3 spades and the heart king on seems to come to more than 4S=

[Echognome]

Very easy to make 5♠.  Ruff two clubs with the short spade hand and draw the ♠A and K leaving two spades outstanding.  Then just run winners.  As the ♥K is onside, 11 tricks seem easy.

That isn't so easy, you have entry problems.

What entry problems? What lead do you mean? I'm not stating the exact order of the tricks, but rather the general strategy. We can cross once in diamonds and once in trumps.

[655321]

You can't cross in trumps if you are using both the little spades to ruff clubs.

[Echognome]

You can't cross in trumps if you are using both the little spades to ruff clubs.

Sorry. True. But you can cross in clubs for one ruff and cross in diamonds for the 2nd.

[655321]

Well, sure, and I think the hand does make, but I was trying to say that it is more complicated than drawing 2 rounds of trumps (which you can't do) then run winners.

 

Something like

Club lead to Ace

Club ruff

Diamond to King

Club ruff

Spade Ace

Diamond Ace

Diamond Queen (ruffed, and we have only drawn 1 round of trumps so far)

Club exit, ruffed in dummy

Spade King

Heart Queen, covered

4th round of diamond pitching the low heart and there is just one trump to lose.

[jdonn]

1♦-1♠

2♠-2NT(asking)

3♥(maximum 3451)-4♠

 

That seems easy, with my methods:

 

2NT asks. Opener bids:

 

3♣ = minimum with three spades and either 3451 or 3514. 3♦ would then ask for specifics (bid 3♥ with hearts = 3451; don't bid hearts but bid 3♠ without hearts = 3154)

3♥ = natural = 3451 maximum

3♦ = maximum without hearts = 3154 maximum

3♠ = minimum but four piece

3NT+ = various maximum 4-piece options

I think it's important to be able to stop in 3 of opener's minor when he is min with 3.

[MickyB]

I play 2NT as GF enquiry and 1D:1S, 2S:3D as INV.

[whereagles]

why complicate what's simple?

 

leave the moysians for occasions where you really need them.