Bounced around

[shyams]

From last night's club session.

[hv=d=w&v=b&s=sk865h83dkq953cqt]133|100|Scoring: MP

West North East South

(3♣) Dbl (5♣) Dbl

Pass 5♠ Pass ???[/hv]

1. Agree with South's 1st X?

2. What now?

 

Thank you.

[hanp]

Yes I agree with the first double.

 

I would pass 5S. We may make slam but with this aceless hand and Q10 of clubs I think it is too much of a gamble. It looks like we have survived this auction so I'm content to pass what is likely to be a reasonable contract.

[fromageGB]

1. No, not enough values or shape.

 

2. Bid 4♠ and hope LHO passes without thinking.

[gwnn]

nice auction, pass now

[hanp]

I think the shape is fine for the initial double. Although this isn't a penalty double, I think partner will pass 80-90% of the time. Partner doubled at the 3-level, I think we'll be beating this quite often, sometimes 2 or 3 tricks. When partner bids, it's more often right than wrong I think.

 

Had partner bid 5H, I would have bid 5S.

[fromageGB]

Let me re-address this.

If the first South double is penalties, then yes, it's a fine double. Partner rescues, so pass now.

If the first South double was asking North to bid, then I don't like it, and wouldn't. But having asked partner to bid, that 5♠ is not showing extras. Pass.

[karlson]

So given that we could have had the same hand with the majors reversed for the double (could we?) what kind of hand bids 5♠?

[whereagles]

seems like an easy pass, given the lack of aces. where's the catch?

[hanp]

So given that we could have had the same hand with the majors reversed for the double (could we?) what kind of hand bids 5♠?

The auction is certainly consistent with partner having 5-4-4-0 shape. And he doesn't need the world to double 3C with that shape.

[655321]

Agree with double then pass.

 

Don't see any alternative to the first double. If we pass, partner won't play us for this much and will usually pass out 5♣ even when we can make a contract, or when they are going 2 or 3 down. I certainly won't bid 5/5 with this balanced 10 count either, so nothing is left except double.

[Fluffy]

double and pass seems obvious.

[karlson]

So given that we could have had the same hand with the majors reversed for the double (could we?) what kind of hand bids 5♠?

The auction is certainly consistent with partner having 5-4-4-0 shape. And he doesn't need the world to double 3C with that shape.

So in the hypothetical I mentioned, we are either forced to slam or forced to play the 5-2?

 

I think 5♠ should be an almost impossible bid in this situation, and if it exists, should show basically a single-suiter.

[hanp]

Sometimes you get into a bad spot when they preempt to 5C. That doesn't mean you have to bid a 4-card suit with 5-4-4-0 distribution out of fear partner has a doubleton.

[fromageGB]

I think karlson has a good point. When I make a penalty double of 5♣ partner (I initially assumed) got cold feet and rescued. But in that case he would not have made a takeout double in the first instance, he would have bid 3♠ or 4♠ initially.

 

I don't think his hand is consistent with 5440. With a good hand of that shape he would pass the double. After all, I may not have any spades.

 

No, I reckon partner has a very strong 2 opener in spades, maybe a GF. On realising this (thanks, karlson) I think 6♠ is OK. Aceless, yes, but partner has them.

 

How do people normally handle GF/nearGF hands after a preempt ?

[Flameous]

By bidding 4S typically. I'm not sure what kind of hand really can bid 5S now, but I'd assume partner expected us to have a real responsive double and chose the better major. Lucky us. I guess that 5440 also works.

[whereagles]

I think karlson has a good point. When I make a penalty double of 5♣ partner (I initially assumed) got cold feet and rescued.

cold feet at the 5 level? I don't think so. If something, pard has some GOSH.

[Free]

Dbl was ok. Now pass, we reached a good spot.

[aguahombre]

So given that we could have had the same hand with the majors reversed for the double (could we?) what kind of hand bids 5♠?

The auction is certainly consistent with partner having 5-4-4-0 shape. And he doesn't need the world to double 3C with that shape.

Gwnn?? Can you find a thread about a year ago where Josh and a bunch of others insisted 5-4 in the majors had to bid hearts in a similar situation? I remember the discussion, but don't remember whether it was the same scenario.

[hanp]

Why don't you do the search yourself? The search function is not that mysterious.

[pooltuna]

Why don't you do the search yourself? The search function is not that mysterious.

and all this time I thought you were the BBF search utility <_<

[aguahombre]

Why don't you do the search yourself? The search function is not that mysterious.

Thank you. I guess it is a mystery to me, since I only get a reply that the search menu is disabled. Was also having trouble thinking up key words.

[whereagles]

forum search engines are often as useful as microsoft help files ;)

[cherdanno]

So given that we could have had the same hand with the majors reversed for the double (could we?) what kind of hand bids 5♠?

The auction is certainly consistent with partner having 5-4-4-0 shape. And he doesn't need the world to double 3C with that shape.

So in the hypothetical I mentioned, we are either forced to slam or forced to play the 5-2?

 

I think 5♠ should be an almost impossible bid in this situation, and if it exists, should show basically a single-suiter.

Strain before level? I'd rather sometimes play a level too high than play a 4-3 fit at the 5-level.

[karlson]

Who said anything about a 4-3 fit? I think that the double should almost always have two places to play (yes, maybe you can have 3352 or something, but we can still get to diamonds often then) So we're mostly talking about getting to the 4-4 instead of the 5-4 sometimes. To me that's a pretty minor loss compared to the complete disaster of getting to an iffy 5-2 fit.

[cherdanno]

Nobody is playing a 5-2 fit - responder would have to correct to the 6-level with that.