Blame for missing game

[awm]

[hv=d=e&v=n&w=skjt9xhaxxdxxxxcx&e=saxxhkqt9dxckqjxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

East deals:

 

1♣ - 1♠

2♠ - Pass

 

Who should've bid more?

[JLOGIC]

2S is terribad, pass is very bad, I'll go with 70-30 east.

 

If you are playing awm style where you raise extremely frequently with 3 trumps and a balanced hand then wests pass is more reasonable I guess, I don't really know how to play that style seems like hands like west are very hard to judge (much much better opposite 4 trumps, or 3 trumps and a red stiff), so I won't give a judgement on west in that case.

[JLOGIC]

Clee was talking to me and convinced me that it's right to pass 2S in awm style of raising... please clarify what style the 2S bid is in wrt that.

[karlson]

I blame opener -- I think the hand is just too good for a single raise. Obviously it also looks quite light for a reverse, but that seems the lesser evil.

 

Hijack: score it up for transfer responses. 1c-1h-1s-1n-2h showing almost exactly this hand the way I play. (or 1c-1h-1s-2s-some try-game).

[JLOGIC]

I blame opener -- I think the hand is just too good for a single raise. Obviously it also looks quite light for a reverse, but that seems the lesser evil.

 

Hijack: score it up for transfer responses. 1c-1h-1s-1n-2h showing almost exactly this hand the way I play. (or 1c-1h-1s-2s-some try-game).

Why does it look quite light for a reverse? I don't get it, I view it as a totally normal reverse with this shape. Yes it's not SIXTEEN HIGH CARDS but with various shapes there are different strengths for reversing. This is not only 15 high cards, it's a very good 15.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I voted West, but the answer is most likely both.

 

West sees a 9 card fit, ok single in partner suit is not nice,

but he is certainly worth another move.

 

East may be to strong for the single raise, maybe he should

bid the 2H, depends a little on your requirements for reverses.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[peachy]

The spade Axx solidifies opener's hand as reverse even if it hadn't been a reverse originally (IMO, it is anyway). Supporting spades can wait til next round. East gets the blame.

[Fluffy]

very nice to have reverse strenght, otherwise I'd be playing 2♣.

[flytoox]

Are this pair playing Reverse forcing to game?

 

If not, I would say east's hand qualifies for a non GF reverse and hence would be easier to bid.

 

As others mentioned, this is a good case for 4 card raise.

 

 

This being said, I still think east shld reverse anyway for good suit quality

[gwnn]

East has a perfect reverse, not even minimum I'd say, every card pulls its weight, from the singleton diamond to the fifth club to the 9 of hearts.

 

I'd pass from West without a thought but it's interesting that Mr. Logic considers it as a game try, will try to think about it.

[JLOGIC]

Wasn't it suggested recently in some thread that 1C-1S-2H-2S-3S should be forcing? lol that was a good one, I hope we don't play that!

[whereagles]

1♣ 1♠

2♥ 2♠

4♠

 

perhaps?

[ONEferBRID]

1♣ 1♠

2♥ 2♠

4♠

 

perhaps?

yes, agree.

[cherdanno]

1♣ 1♠

2♥ 2♠

4♠

 

perhaps?

yes, agree.

Why would anyone bid 4S, rather than a non-forcing 3S? Is this hand suddenly a game force? Does our partner not know how to evaluate opposite a 3415 reverse?

[pooltuna]

I blame opener -- I think the hand is just too good for a single raise. Obviously it also looks quite light for a reverse, but that seems the lesser evil.

 

Hijack: score it up for transfer responses. 1c-1h-1s-1n-2h showing almost exactly this hand the way I play. (or 1c-1h-1s-2s-some try-game).

Why does it look quite light for a reverse? I don't get it, I view it as a totally normal reverse with this shape. Yes it's not SIXTEEN HIGH CARDS but with various shapes there are different strengths for reversing. This is not only 15 high cards, it's a very good 15.

so your auction goes 1♣-1♠; 2♥-2NT (not necessarily the actual hand) now do you bid 3♠? and hope partner has the actual hand instead of JTxx Axx xxxx xx (or do you expect him to pass 2♥)

[jdonn]

I agree with both but more opener. I make it about 15-85.

[gwnn]

I blame opener -- I think the hand is just too good for a single raise. Obviously it also looks quite light for a reverse, but that seems the lesser evil.

 

Hijack: score it up for transfer responses. 1c-1h-1s-1n-2h showing almost exactly this hand the way I play. (or 1c-1h-1s-2s-some try-game).

Why does it look quite light for a reverse? I don't get it, I view it as a totally normal reverse with this shape. Yes it's not SIXTEEN HIGH CARDS but with various shapes there are different strengths for reversing. This is not only 15 high cards, it's a very good 15.

so your auction goes 1♣-1♠; 2♥-2NT (not necessarily the actual hand) now do you bid 3♠? and hope partner has the actual hand instead of JTxx Axx xxxx xx (or do you expect him to pass 2♥)

partner always bids 2♠ with 5+ and always bids something other than 2♠ with 4. it's a nice way to treat reverses and opener can bid 3♣ with any minimum reverse over 2NT, even if he has 3 card support. with a maximum reverse you can bid 3♠ over 2NT if you have 3415 to pattern out and help partner.

[bucky]

When partner bids spades, East has a clear reverse, not a minimum. Over partner's 2S rebid showing 5+, East hand is good enough to raise to 4S. Give partner KQxxx and out, game has good prospect.

[hanp]

Adam, west's 2S bid is so alien to me that I am very surprised you would post this hand.

[bucky]

so your auction goes 1♣-1♠; 2♥-2NT (not necessarily the actual hand) now do you bid 3♠? and hope partner has the actual hand instead of JTxx Axx xxxx xx (or do you expect him to pass 2♥)

Over 2NT (which is possibly artificial and denies 5+ spades), 3♣ is painless. But with JTxx Axx xxxx xx, I'd serious think about an anti-system pass of the 2♥ bid (Marshall Miles would agree).

[jdonn]

so your auction goes 1♣-1♠; 2♥-2NT (not necessarily the actual hand) now do you bid 3♠? and hope partner has the actual hand instead of JTxx Axx xxxx xx (or do you expect him to pass 2♥)

Over 2NT (which is possibly artificial and denies 5+ spades), 3♣ is painless. But with JTxx Axx xxxx xx, I'd serious think about an anti-system pass of the 2♥ bid (Marshall Miles would agree).

I think that's a huge error. I'm all for passing forcing bids in the very rare (emphasis on very) moments when we really think everything higher will give us a minus or we are too high already, but just because we are minimum and don't know of a fit yet is not nearly a good enough reason. Think of the hands partner could have...

 

KQx KQxx - AKQxxx

x KQJTx A AKxxxx

 

These are slams (granted very hard to bid) and perfectly consistent with a reverse. You could make either hand worse and still have game which just shows how easily game could exist. Not to mention that for many people the reverse can be 3 cards on a 3316 type of hand. And our hand isn't even that bad, we have an ace and there is a JT combination.

 

I think passing a forcing bid this early in the auction is usually a mistake when it's done and would be a clear error on this hand.

[bucky]

Many would open 2♣ with the two examples you gave, but your points are taken. With this hand, I would *think* about pass but probably still grit my teeth and pull out the 2NT card. At least I can stand a likely 3♣ rebid from partner. Reduce this hand to 4351 shape with same honor location (or would you pass or respond 1♦?), I would pass at the table. Yes, you can construct hands which make the pass look silly, but there are far more hands with which 2♥ offers better prospect (especially if I have club shortness).

[rduran1216]

opener has to reverse, then getting there is easy.

 

With spade and diamond holding switched, opener will have a major problem, but 5 losers makes a reverse for me.

[mike777]

if opener has to reverse ,,,this hand is not an issue

 

-------

 

 

as usual no one debates the issue

[whereagles]

1♣ 1♠

2♥ 2♠

4♠

 

perhaps?

yes, agree.

Why would anyone bid 4S, rather than a non-forcing 3S? Is this hand suddenly a game force? Does our partner not know how to evaluate opposite a 3415 reverse?

Because it feels right to bid game, even if 2♠ is a weakish bid.