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How to continue?

flytoox

By flytoox
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flytoox

flytoox

Posted
Posted

Playing 2/1 with a reliable partner, sitting south you hold

S: A8765

H: Q

D: KQJ9

C: T76

 

Auction proceeds as follows(Opponents are silent):

 

N S

- 1S

2C 2D

2S 3C

3H ??

 

What do you bid now?

 

In particular, what is the difference between 3S and 4S? Does 3S encourage pd to make slam try and 4S shows a min. hand?

 

Furtheremore, what is the difference between 3S (If that is a waiting bid) and a cuebid of, say 4D, minor?

 

Any thoughts on these follow-ups are welcome.

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bucky

bucky

Posted
Posted
My 2 cents: it is reasonable to use 4♠ here as showing a minimum hand lacking good controls, which is a fairly accurate description of this hand. A 3♠ bid doesn't deny a minimum hand, but you should have some redeeming feature, perhaps AJ765 / x / KQJ9 / Q76 at least. 4♦ bid ought to emphasize on diamonds as source of tricks (and implies good trump suit).
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Siegmund

Siegmund

Posted
Posted

I can't help thinking partner already has made a slam try, with 3H - we agreed spades as trump, and apparently our plan was to pattern out and see if partner did anything interesting. (I wonder if partner this we've already made a slam try with 3C?)

 

Between partner's 3H-not-3D and our lack of anything to cuebid, I am fine with 4S now to pour cold water on things. I am sure some partnerships wouldn't allow me to do that, with partner still unlimited. (In fact in one of my partnerships, 3S would be a semi-automatic 'waiting bid' and the leap to 4S would promise possession of a control in every suit.)

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neilkaz

neilkaz

Posted
Posted

I certainly hold little that is exciting here and have weakish trumps and only an 8 card fit (assuming we play J2N and splinters) and perhaps I should have just tried to end the auction by bidding 4♠ last round. Thus I will do my best to end it now by bidding 4♠.

 

.. neilkaz ..

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the hog

the hog

Posted
Posted
I can't help thinking partner already has made a slam try, with 3H - we agreed spades as trump, and apparently our plan was to pattern out and see if partner did anything interesting. (I wonder if partner this we've already made a slam try with 3C?)

 

Between partner's 3H-not-3D and our lack of anything to cuebid, I am fine with 4S now to pour cold water on things. I am sure some partnerships wouldn't allow me to do that, with partner still unlimited. (In fact in one of my partnerships, 3S would be a semi-automatic 'waiting bid' and the leap to 4S would promise possession of a control in every suit.)

As 2S could be a doubleton, I hardly think that S is the agreed suit at this stage. Many play 2S as a waiting bid here. I would take partner's 3H bid as asking for a H stopper. As my spades are not of great quality, I would simply bid 3S here to await partner's continuation.

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Siegmund

Siegmund

Posted
Posted
No, I will stick with the version of 2/1 which guarantees a 3-card fit for spades with the 2S rebid by responder. What you say is applicable to SA.

 

...not SA either, the way I learned it: 1S-2C-2D-2S would be a 3-card limit raise.

 

I'm sure there is someone out there who plays it the way the Hog does, but not textbook saycers!

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aguahombre

aguahombre

Posted
Posted
No, I will stick with the version of 2/1 which guarantees a 3-card fit for spades with the 2S rebid by responder.  What you say is applicable to SA.

Not just SA. Many 2/1 variants as well. There was a thread on this recently.

Hence, "the version of....". But, you should reread that thread ---in particular, AWM's post. There is no mention in that thread of 2-card support being possible in 2/1, although someone somewhere might do it.

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aguahombre

aguahombre

Posted
Posted
No, I will stick with the version of 2/1 which guarantees a 3-card fit for spades with the 2S rebid by responder. What you say is applicable to SA.

 

...not SA either, the way I learned it: 1S-2C-2D-2S would be a 3-card limit raise.

 

I'm sure there is someone out there who plays it the way the Hog does, but not textbook saycers!

The published SAYC booklet, and the Std system notes accessible on-line are very specific about this sequence only showing 2 spades (somthing like QX XXX XXX AKQXX). That doesn't mean a lot of standard bidders haven't made up their own agreements, but it shows 3-cards in 2/1 and 2 in STD. 3-card limit raises in SAYC are direct jumps.

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hanp

hanp

Posted
Posted
No, I will stick with the version of 2/1 which guarantees a 3-card fit for spades with the 2S rebid by responder.  What you say is applicable to SA.

Not just SA. Many 2/1 variants as well. There was a thread on this recently.

Do you mean the thread where almost everybody said it shows 3-card support? You have a selective memory, remembering that there was a thread but not remembering that almost nobody agreed with you.

 

I don't mean to say it has to show 3-card support. I think it is playable to agree that 2S may be honor doubleton. But in my view this is a non-standard agreement.

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the hog

the hog

Posted
Posted
No, I will stick with the version of 2/1 which guarantees a 3-card fit for spades with the 2S rebid by responder.  What you say is applicable to SA.

Not just SA. Many 2/1 variants as well. There was a thread on this recently.

Do you mean the thread where almost everybody said it shows 3-card support? You have a selective memory, remembering that there was a thread but not remembering that almost nobody agreed with you.

 

I don't mean to say it has to show 3-card support. I think it is playable to agree that 2S may be honor doubleton. But in my view this is a non-standard agreement.

Ok Han. Show me the definitive book in which it is written that it is 3 card support. Pls quote the title and page number.

 

From one of the threads

2♥ is kind of a relay. It is usually three-card support but occasionally two or four - AWM

2H is a relay - You!

2H (step 1) = artificial relay, asking opener to describe his hand further - Frances

2H - not necessarily 3 card support - Marlowe

 

Further, no one actively disagreed with my post, so don't behave like a turkey as you usually do.

 

So it is obvious that not everyone plays it as 3, correct? So how can you assume it is 3?

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jdonn

jdonn

Posted
Posted

I think it's pretty clear to bid 3NT. In the context of our shape we have a hand where that could easily be the best contract. I only play serious or non-serious 3NT here if opener bids 3♠, not over any lower bid.

 

Give partner Qxx AKJx xx QJxx or something...

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