No Keycards? So 6H!

[gurgistan]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=shat42dakq652ca86]133|100|Scoring: IMP

I open in 3rd seat with 1♦. Regular partner bids 1♥. I bid 4N RKB1430. Partner responds 5♦. I place in 6♥. Opponents are silent throughout.

 

How bad/good was my placing of contract in heart slam?[/hv]

[manudude03]

Why jump to 4NT? Bid 3S first and respect a signoff. Failing that, then I guess you can punt it in the hope partner has ♥QJxxx and a club card or something.

 

Edit: thought 5♣ response.

[Bbradley62]

I agree with the dude. You took control as if you can't trust partner to cooperate at all, and you made a wild guess. Since no one has bid spades, I'd expect them (and the honors) to be evenly distributed among the other three players, so pard could easily have something like Kxxx, Qxxx, xx, Jxx. Of course, you could get lucky (even a blind squirrel...) but this is a horrible auction.

[hanp]

Not an easy hand but yes, a bad auction.

[pooltuna]

How do you know partner doesn't hold something like KQxx J653 x Jxxx. You need to elicit partner's help with this hand and not go bonkers. 4NT should be used when you are looking for a reason to stay out of slam.

[hanp]

Let me just say once that I disagree with the tuna and that does not only hold for this post but for all future posts as well.

[pooltuna]

Let me just say once that I disagree with the tuna and that does not only hold for this post but for all future posts as well.

That's fine but the Blind Pig rule will eventually bite you :blink:

[Fluffy]

If you are gonna bid 6♥ no matter what, then the psycke 4NT bid is ok. If you had anything else in mind other than missleading your opponents you are wrong.

[ONEferBRID]

Instead of the Sp splinter, what about using the convention-with-no-name?

 

p   - 1D

1H - 4D! = strong 4h/6d

[gurgistan]

Why jump to 4NT? Bid 3S first and respect a signoff. Failing that, then I guess you can punt it in the hope partner has ♥QJxxx and a club card or something.

 

Edit: thought 5♣ response.

I do not understand why I would bid 3♠ first. I have no spades! Please explain.

 

From another post, it appears 3♠ is a splinter but I need a spade to splinter yes? or is it ok to "lie"?

[bd71]

Fun question on this hand...even though RKC is not the right approach, once asked do you consider your chances at slam better with a response of ZERO or ONE keycard (the one being the A♠)? Doesn't the ZERO answer make it more likely that partner has values in rounded suits that can help take care of some of our losers?

[Fluffy]

Why jump to 4NT? Bid 3S first and respect a signoff. Failing that, then I guess you can punt it in the hope partner has ♥QJxxx and a club card or something.

 

Edit: thought 5♣ response.

I do not understand why I would bid 3♠ first. I have no spades! Please explain.

 

From another post, it appears 3♠ is a splinter but I need a spade to splinter yes? or is it ok to "lie"?

You also need to be interested on how many aces does partner have in his hand when you bid 4NT, why isn't it a lie?

[neilkaz]

I do not understand why I would bid 3♠ first. I have no spades! Please explain.

 

From another post, it appears 3♠ is a splinter but I need a spade to splinter yes? or is it ok to "lie"?

Since you didn't post this in B/I (where it belongs) I won't hold anything back when I tell you that I think blasting into RKCB and then bidding slam after PD shows no key cards is AWFUL and nothing but a guess and a gamble.

 

Who ever told you that you can't splinter with a void?

 

You should either splinter 3♠ or bid 4♦ which as Don says should show the special hand with 4♥ and 6♦ and for me good cards in both suits and quite slam invitational.

 

After either bid, respect partners sign off as he can be minimum and have wasted HCP in ♠ as well as 4 weakish trumps.

 

Another possibility is to jump directly to 4♠ as Exclusion but it is still possible to pd to have a min and the 5 level isn't safe.

 

If slam has good play you can get there by slower and safer routes than blasting to RKCB and then (LOL) bidding slam when PD has ZERO key cards.

 

I would clearly splinter 3♠ and then I'd love to hear PD cooperate with a ♣ cue.

 

As for rating your bidding on this hand...well frankly I give it 0 out of 10.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[aguahombre]

Instead of the Sp splinter, what about using the convention-with-no-name?

 

p   - 1D

1H - 4D! = strong 4h/6d

C-W-N-N is used differently by some of us, and this hand has two flaws for us:

 

The spade void which gives us control in every suit but will make partner's evaluation as responder difficult. AND

 

It is in-between our two C-W-N-N rebids (4C=slammish, and 4D=weakish with everything in the two suits).

 

3S seems like the default bid which helps partner the most; will abide by a signoff.

[ONEferBRID]

Instead of the Sp splinter, what about using the convention-with-no-name?

 

p   - 1D

1H - 4D! = strong 4h/6d

C-W-N-N is used differently by some of us, and this hand has two flaws for us:

 

The spade void which gives us control in every suit but will make partner's evaluation as responder difficult. AND

 

It is in-between our two C-W-N-N rebids (4C=slammish, and 4D=weakish with everything in the two suits).

 

3S seems like the default bid which helps partner the most; will abide by a signoff.

I'm interested in the "rebids" for the C-W-N-N.

Where is the 4C! "rebid" used ?- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

For me a 3S! splinter would be less shapely, say 1 4 5 3,

but I agree the present hand is rather "heavy".

 

3S! might work better because of more exloration room, say a welcomed 4C! cuebid by Responder. You could then use the Meckwell "toy" of 4NT! as voidwood for Hts ( excluding the Sp Ace ), whereas 4S! would be kickback RKC for Hts .

[PetteriLem]

The heart slam depends on trumps. If they are good, then we have 6-7♥. I would rule out splinter and rkcb. Splinter will not give you any information u need or partner needs and worse, one day the opponents believe that you really dont have spades and lead clubs, which u really dont want to happen. Rkcb may strike gold, but often u just have to guess, which u should avoid. If u have agreed that 5♥ asks trump quality that should be used. I think it is not ideal here, but u find correct place more often than never.With 3 honours or equivalent partner should explore 7, with 2 bid 6 and with less it depends on agreements.

[junyi_zhu]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=shat42dakq652ca86]133|100|Scoring: IMP

I open in 3rd seat with 1♦. Regular partner bids 1♥. I bid 4N RKB1430. Partner responds 5♦. I place in 6♥. Opponents are silent throughout.

 

How bad/good was my placing of contract in heart slam?[/hv]

The technically correct bid for this hand is 5NT to ask for trump strength, or some type of ERKC in S. Also, if you play 4S as kickback, it's possible to use 4NT as ERKC in S.

[aguahombre]

I'm interested in the "rebids" for the C-W-N-N.

Where is the 4C! "rebid" used ?[/b

It was actually called "Walsh Fragments" or "6-4 Fragments".

 

The distinction between a 4C and a 4D rebid after 1m-1M is in the top two paragraphs of Hardy's orange book, page 9.

 

The use of the word "fragment" was strange because the frag suit was unknown, which might be why convention with no name emerged. (Or maybe the 4-card Major was the fragment :D

Edited September 13, 2010 by aguahombre

[gurgistan]

The heart slam depends on trumps. If they are good, then we have 6-7♥. I would rule out splinter and rkcb. Splinter will not give you any information u need or partner needs and worse, one day the opponents believe that you really dont have spades and lead clubs, which u really dont want to happen. Rkcb may strike gold, but often u just have to guess, which u should avoid. If u have agreed that 5♥ asks trump quality that should be used. I think it is not ideal here, but u find correct place more often than never.With 3 honours or equivalent partner should explore 7, with 2 bid 6 and with less it depends on agreements.

I am very interested in the idea of 5♥ asking for trump quality.

 

Presumably, if partner is good he bids 6♥ and passes if poor.

 

Is this a recognized convention or a good commonsense solution to bidding a hand I am having difficulty with?

[JLOGIC]

Forcing to the 5 level is reasonable with this hand, especially if you don't tell them what black suit to lead. I think 5H is perfect.

 

Splintering is the right option if you're not going to drive to the 5 level, but imo is quite bad if you are willing to drive that high.

 

On a bad day you can't even make 4H, on a good day you make 7H opposite a hand that won't try for slam over a splinter. I don't think either plan is unreasonable, I am typically cautious in this type of position but I want to bid 5H so whatever. It certainly does not do justice to your hand to bid 3S or 4D and pass a signoff though.

[manudude03]

Splinters can include voids so it's not a lie at all. My only issue with a 5H bid is that it could easily be going down if partner passes, other than that, it seems a fair description. I just call it a TQST (trump quality slam try), partner typically bids slam with 2 of top 3, though something like KJxxx could easily qualify in this particular auction.

 

I've heard people say that the best way to improve slam bidding is to not have any ace asking bids at all, then you can phase in whatever to avoid the slams off 2 aces, it will show you how rarely blackwood is actually needed.

[JLOGIC]

I've heard people say that the best way to improve slam bidding is to not have any ace asking bids at all, then you can phase in whatever to avoid the slams off 2 aces, it will show you how rarely blackwood is actually needed.

Lol what?

 

Keycard is bid on almost every slam hand at all levels, and when it isn't it's usually because there was a quantitative auction like 2N-4N-6N, or the opponents preempted you out of being about to bid keycard. This is not for no reason, keycard is absolutely vital to slam bidding, GL trying to cuebid your way into every slam correctly.

[Fluffy]

it might not be best on practice, but it is by far the best to train slam judgement

[jonottawa]

You might have opened 6♥ but I guess you're about the ♥Q short for that action.

[ggwhiz]

I hate splinters and so play that a jump shift is 100% game forcing. I can bid 3♣ with this hand followed by 4♥ if pard makes a meek ♦ preference which seems like enough.

 

Pard will know I have short spades and a moose.