Putting Weak 3 Into Game

[gurgistan]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=skj843hkdk97ckj83]133|100|Scoring: IMP

Partner is dealer and opens 3♣. South passes. I bid game in clubs. It is passed out.

 

Questions:

1. Was I right to put us into game in this hand?

 

2. Generally, what kind of point count am I looking for to put a weak 3 into game?

 

3. If converting a weak 3 into 3N game, then I need stoppers in all suits but with what point count?

[/hv]

[mgoetze]

This is one spot where you should try not to rely on point count if at all possible.

 

5♣ is very likely to fail on this hand, as partner didn't promise any aces. I wouldn't bid 3NT either since you may get a trick on the lead and 7 club tricks but that could still well be the end of it. With the reverse vulnerability I might bid 3NT as partner is more likely to have some side queens and the game bonus is more important then.

 

Basically, what you need to do is picture possible hands partner might have and consider how well the game you are thinking of bidding is going to be. If you are making opposite an ill-fitting maximum and a well-fitting minimum, you should bid it. Also, consider the vulnerability and how much you rate to go down opposite an ill-fitting minimum.

 

Also, I would like to recommend the "Beginner and Intermediate Bridge Discussion" forum for this type of question.

[pooltuna]

Q1) Barring unusual agreements, no as you rate to be missing 3 aces and are set before you start.

 

Q2) it is not so much point count but try to count your tricks. So for this hand I see about 9 tricks

 

Q3)again try to count tricks to make your decision In this hand I think we will take 8 tricks but they will take 5 before we get our 9th.

[neilkaz]

I don't know why to expected partner who opened 3♣ at favorable vul to possibly have the 2 aces you need to have play for 5♣ :rolleyes:

[lexlogan]

Bidding 5 expecting to make obviously requires partner to have two Aces, so that's clearly wrong. Raising to 5 with four trumps and a singleton would often be good tactics, expecting they can make game in hearts; but here you have too much potential defense outside clubs.

 

Oddly, then, you should raise to 5C if you throw out one the Kings outside of clubs. With your actual hand I would raise to 4C; it's too much to hope they'll pass 3C, and while raising to 4 might push them into a making game they weren't going to bid, I think the combined chances of fourth hand not having enough to bid or finding four is an overbid or missing their best fit make it worth the risk.

 

Picturing partner with, for example, x xxx xx AQxxxxx, you would raise to game with Axxxx x KQx KJxx and expect to have a good chance to make (and not much chance of beating 4H unless clubs are 1-1.) However, at this vulnerability, partner might have only 6 clubs.

[nige1]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=skj843hkdk97ckj83]133|100|Scoring: IMP

Partner is dealer and opens 3♣. South passes. I bid game in clubs. It is passed out. Questions:

1. Was I right to put us into game in this hand?

2. Generally, what kind of point count am I looking for to put a weak 3 into game?

3. If converting a weak 3 into 3N game, then I need stoppers in all suits but with what point count?

[/hv]

IMO 5♣ is a perfectly sensible response on this hand. It it quite likely to be a sacrifice or to tempt opponents into an indiscretion.

You can risk a constructive 3N reply to 3♣ on as little as

♠ Kx ♥ AQ ♦Jxxxx ♣Axxx

But you can also employ a substandard 3N reply as a tactical bid on much weaker hands.

[wank]

you aren't going to make game and the opps probably aren't going to bid game, even if they can make it, so don't bid game yourself.

 

and deffo acquaint yourself with the beginner/intermediate forum where people are more tolerant of inane questions

[Free]

1. I would never bid 5♣ on this hand. First of all, the chance is small that partner holds 2 Aces, so we'll probably lose 3 tricks. Also you might have an easy 4M game. I'd just respond 3♠, hoping to play 4♠ or 4♣.

 

2. Point count is quite irrelevant here, you need to make tricks and not lose too many tricks. So Aces and Kings are valuable, Queens and Jacks are probably worthless.

 

3. Again, point count is irrelevant, you need to make tricks. This depends a lot on vulnerability. Here, Kings are also worth less, because you have to avoid opps taking a lot of tricks. Say you have KJx in all other suits, then LHO might lead a suit to RHO, and RHO may lead through one of you KJx's. On the other hand, if you have 3 Aces, you have 3 quick tricks and might be able to score your 3 Aces and 6 ♣ tricks.

[bucky]

3. If converting a weak 3 into 3N game, then I need stoppers in all suits but with what point count?

Point count for 3N is relevant when both hands are balanced. When partner has a long suit, count for the number of tricks instead. After all, whether 3NT makes depends on whether you can take 9 tricks or not, NOT depends on whether you have more than x HCP.

 

BTW, I think many of your questions will be excellent in the Beginner and Intermediate Bridge Discussion forum.