DD solver, again

[1eyedjack]

When viewing the "Movie" of a hand in MyHands (as opposed to the Lin method) you helpfully provide GIB double-dummy analysis, but only at the point of completion of each trick.

 

I would prefer the option to play each trick pausing after each card within the trick is played, and recalculate the DD solution for the next player within the trick at each card.

 

The linplayer invoked from saved hands is very slightly better. Again it insists on playing out the entire trick when prompted, without an option to pause at each card within the trick, but at least it provides the expected DD result of each card within it (if not, unfortunately, the alternative legitimate cards which might have been chosen).

[inquiry]

When viewing the "Movie" of a hand in MyHands (as opposed to the Lin method) you helpfully provide GIB double-dummy analysis, but only at the point of completion of each trick.

 

I would prefer the option to play each trick pausing after each card within the trick is played, and recalculate the DD solution for the next player within the trick at each card.

 

The linplayer invoked from saved hands is very slightly better. Again it insists on playing out the entire trick when prompted, without an option to pause at each card within the trick, but at least it provides the expected DD result of each card within it (if not, unfortunately, the alternative legitimate cards which might have been chosen).

May I suggest the double dummy solver, that you can download for free from the following webpage (go to their download page, you do not have to download their demo, you can download the double dummy solver directly).

 

Bridge Captain's web site

 

This Double Dummy solver does everything you asked for and so much more. In addition, it is SOOOOOOO much faster than Gib in netbridgevu.

 

It does the double dummy pause and recalculate automatically. Or you can just play until you see the double dummy number of tricks go wrong, then back up to where they go right again, and look to see what the double dummy card is.

 

But the double dummy solver allows you to

1) change the contract on any hand and replay it live

2) change the declarer on any hand

3) change both declarer and contract

4) it calculates the "par contract" and will compare your results versus that

5) if you load a team match, it will compare NS and EW hands to par if you like and rescore the match

6) It shows ALL the makeable contracts, both directions.

 

Oh, did I mention, you can download hands played on the bbo directly into it? Take a look at the attached PDF where I download teh hands you played on BBO during the last (I think) 7 days (it might have been 24 hours). And see the images I captured to illustrate various points.

DD_solaver.pdf

[1eyedjack]

When viewing the "Movie" of a hand in MyHands (as opposed to the Lin method) you helpfully provide GIB double-dummy analysis, but only at the point of completion of each trick.

 

I would prefer the option to play each trick pausing after each card within the trick is played, and recalculate the DD solution for the next player within the trick at each card.

 

The linplayer invoked from saved hands is very slightly better. Again it insists on playing out the entire trick when prompted, without an option to pause at each card within the trick, but at least it provides the expected DD result of each card within it (if not, unfortunately, the alternative legitimate cards which might have been chosen).

May I suggest the double dummy solver, that you can download for free from the following webpage (go to their download page, you do not have to download their demo, you can download the double dummy solver directly).

 

Bridge Captain's web site

 

This Double Dummy solver does everything you asked for and so much more. In addition, it is SOOOOOOO much faster than Gib in netbridgevu.

 

It does the double dummy pause and recalculate automatically. Or you can just play until you see the double dummy number of tricks go wrong, then back up to where they go right again, and look to see what the double dummy card is.

 

But the double dummy solver allows you to

1) change the contract on any hand and replay it live

2) change the declarer on any hand

3) change both declarer and contract

4) it calculates the "par contract" and will compare your results versus that

5) if you load a team match, it will compare NS and EW hands to par if you like and rescore the match

6) It shows ALL the makeable contracts, both directions.

 

Oh, did I mention, you can download hands played on the bbo directly into it? Take a look at the attached PDF where I download teh hands you played on BBO during the last (I think) 7 days (it might have been 24 hours). And see the images I captured to illustrate various points.

I did download the program and try it out before posting. I may have missed some features (the interface is a bit cluttered for the unfamiliar), but my initial observation is that

1) It does indeed do a lot of things that BBO software does not

2) It also fails to do some things that BBO does do

3) It shares with BBO the failure to do some things

4) Contrary to your assertion, I do not believe that it fully addresses the point in my post to which you were responding.

 

On balance I would agree that it is more powerful than the facility provided by BBO. While they both remain imperfect I will continue to lobby BBO, via channels provided by BBO, to improve the software over which BBO has influence.

 

I might lobby BridgeCaptain also through separate channels, but that is not for here.

 

To illustrate my points by way of example:

 

Item 1) - well you have that covered

 

Item 2.1) - If you want to review several hands in a tournament, including hands played by others, you are FAR better off going to MyHands and using Movie, because you get a front-end summary of the hands and full travellers at all tables. You can go directly to hands in order of interest rather than in board number order. With Bridge Captain the only way to navigate between hands is by opening the first one in the list and then clicking on Next hand repeatedly until you find the one that you are looking for, and even then you will only get the line of play selected at the table of the individual for whom you downloaded the hands.

 

Item 2.2) - It will NOT give you a DD solution for each legitimate card that the next player may give, in advance of trying that card. BBO Movie/GIB will indicate with a green or red number attached to each legitimate card how many overtricks or undertricks would result were that card to be selected, BEFORE trying it. With Bridge Captain you have to physically select each card in turn and recalculate, then undo that selection in order to try the next - all the while trying to remember the answers already given by previous selections because (unlike GIB) they are no longer displayed when you try the next selection.

 

Item 3) Even BBO Movie will only solve the complaint mentioned in item 2.2 for the person on lead to the next trick. It will not pause within the trick to recalculate. Granted, Bridge Captain DOES allow you to pause mid-trick, but as explained above the process of DD-solving all permutations for the person on play is unwieldy to the point of unworkable. GIB in principle does have the facility to recalculate within the trick, as it does this when kibitzing a live game. It is only in the Movie summary that it fails to do this, and instinctively I feel that this would not be hard to correct.

 

Item 4) - See items 2.2 and 3

[inquiry]

Well, you need to play with the double dummy solver just a little more. Let me address some of where you missed somethings....

 

Item 2.1) - If you want to review several hands in a tournament, including hands played by others, you are FAR better off going to MyHands and using Movie, because you get a front-end summary of the hands and full travellers at all tables.  You can go directly to hands in order of interest rather than in board number order.  With Bridge Captain the only way to navigate between hands is by opening the first one in the list and then clicking on Next hand repeatedly until you find the one that you are looking for, and even then you will only get the line of play selected at the table of the individual for whom you downloaded the hands.

 

WRONG. If you look at my PDF again, you will see I address this. Follow the instruction there, or simply to this. After you load the hands, click the "score card" menu item. You get a list of all the hands you downloaded, just like on myhands. Then to go the hand you want, you can just "CLICK on it' from the scorecard. This jumps you to the hand of interest. This is how I got to your 7D contract on the example.

 

It is true, you lack the full travellers from all the tables. But, you have double dummy makable contracts AND the pair contract listed for you in the DD solver. So looking at the other tables is hardly a major thing, and you can have both myhands and DD solver should you want to look at the other tables.

 

Item 2.2) - It will NOT give you a DD solution for each legitimate card that the next player may give, in advance of trying that card.  BBO Movie/GIB will indicate with a green or red number attached to each legitimate card how many overtricks or undertricks would result were that card to be selected, BEFORE trying it.  With Bridge Captain you have to physically select each card in turn and recalculate, then undo that selection in order to try the next - all the while trying to remember the answers already given by previous selections because (unlike GIB) they are no longer displayed when you try the next selection.

 

This entire section is sort of wrong. Let me see if I can address this issue so that we can agree what it does. For the bolded part, it is true that it does not automatically highlight the "right" card for you. I find this a useful feature, as I like to think about the play and not have it shown to me. But if you "click" the a wrong card, the DD Result immediately decreases (or if defender, increases) by one or more. This is what you are talking about. However, at any point in the hand you are one click away from seeing all the double dummy correct cards. Simply click the "DD Cards" button at any point during the play of the hand, and the cards that are the correct DD play are INSTANTLY highlighted. So it most certainly WILL give you the DD solution for EACH card prior to trying any one of them, at any point during the play.

 

The DD Cards button also correctly deals with the second, underlined part. You clearly DO NOT have to remember and try multiple clicking, all you have to do is if you want to "see" the double dummy cards before you touch anyone of them is press the DD Cards button.

 

Item 3) Even BBO Movie will only solve the complaint mentioned in item 2.2 for the person on lead to the next trick.  It will not pause within the trick to recalculate.  Granted, Bridge Captain DOES allow you to pause mid-trick, but as explained above the process of DD-solving all permutations for the person on play is unwieldy to the point of unworkable.  GIB in principle does have the facility to recalculate within the trick, as it does this when kibitzing a live game.  It is only in the Movie summary that it fails to do this, and instinctively I feel that this would not be hard to correct.

 

Again, your item 3, you seem to have overlooked the "DD card" solution, so I honestly believe you haven't tried the software adequately yet. However, if you are "stuck" on using netbridgevu and gib, you can do this... Save the movie file as a lin. Open with notebook. Find all |pc| in the file and replace with |pc|pg|| then open the file with netbridgevu. Now the movie will only play one card at a time. I do something very similar to this a lot in the past, but find DD Solver is much, much better way.

 

Give DD another try, and find and use the "DD Card" button, I think you will find that it is MUCH better than your review above suggest.

 

Item 4) - See items 2.2 and 3

 

See my responses to your item 2.2 and 3 above

[1eyedjack]

OK I stand for the most part corrected, for which I thank you for your patience and explanation. You are right I had missed the scorecard.

 

I don't think that the "DD cards" does precisely the same as Movie. Yes, it highlights those legitimate cards which would give rise to the DD result, but it does not tell you what deviation from the DD result would arise from selecting other (unhighlighted) legitimate cards.

 

It is of course fair to say that this is only a minor failing, and certainly one that I can live with.

 

So you can call me a convert.

 

And that feature in the scorecard that works out the par result for all hands listed in one go is very neat.

 

[EDIT] I had totally missed your PDF attachment, which explains it all, thanks you went to a lot of trouble, so I am sorry I missed it

[inquiry]

Your welcome. I have nothing to do with the DD solver, but I use it ALOT. I have to admit, when I first started using it, I was also not a believer in it. Then I started stumbling on features like score card and DD Cards. The killer was the fact you could change the contract and declarer, and re-play it double dummy. Really cool.

[1eyedjack]

Couple of minor niggles with that software. Not that this is the place to air them but what the hey.

 

1) I prefer hands to be presented in "hand diagram" format rather than "picture of cards" format. It is possible that I missed the option to change the format (will have another look when I get back from work) but I suspect that it is not possible to change as the hand diagram format takes up more screen space and the interface is sufficiently cluttered as it is that it probably could not cope.

 

2) I am not permitted to instal the software on my machine at work. Had the entire functionality been available through the browser as per my original request, my lunchtimes would be complete.

 

As I say, these are very minor niggles. Otherwise, "I'm alright, Jack" because I have a Windows-based machine at home. But would this software work on other platforms?

[TimG]

When I am using the "input custom deal" window, there is no longer an option to "save deal". If I "finish dealing" and "exit", I am prompted to save, but it seems that if I just change the dealer or vulnerability and exit, there is no prompt.

 

Is there something I am overlooking?

[inquiry]

When I am using the "input custom deal" window, there is no longer an option to "save deal". If I "finish dealing" and "exit", I am prompted to save, but it seems that if I just change the dealer or vulnerability and exit, there is no prompt.

 

Is there something I am overlooking?

I'm guessing you are talking about the main program, "briidge captain 6". I am sort of embarrashed to say that I have never downloaded bridge captain. I only download and use their DD Solver. Therefore, I can not answer the question about the input custom hand.

 

If I had to guess, I would think that the free "demo version" of bridge captain might not allow you to create and save hands. I suggest this because a lot of demo programs have similar restrictions.

[inquiry]

Whoops. I have found the input custom deal thingee in DD Solver. Sorry tim, good catch...

 

I would use someother program i was more familar with to create a custom one, but I will give this thing a try.

[vuroth]

Since I can't run the bridgecaptain thingy in linux, or at work, and I can use the browser-based lin-viewer....

 

If you want to pause a trick at a certain location - edit the URL line - deleting the play after that trick, or indeed after that card. The DD solver WILL show you the results for each possible card to be played at that moment.

[1eyedjack]

Sounds interesting Vuroth, except that I cannot get your suggestion to work.

 

First off, it may be a Windows/IE8 thing, but the URL is not editable in the popup window that I get. I can copy it to the clipboard and paste it into a new window, where upon I can edit the URL.

 

So I start with something like this:

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer...CS9%7Cmc%7C8%7C

 

What is not clear to me is what adjustment to this URL you are suggesting that I make. If I delete any string of characters from the long list at the end of the URL it just still loads the entire hand and plays it out a trick at a time rather than as a card at a time.

 

It is only of academic interest to me, because I am sold on the third party software for now.

[inquiry]

Glad you are liking the DD solver thing 1eyed....

 

Here is a sort of bug to watch out for with it...

 

When you run the Score Card and "calculate" the double dummy results, it saves the data to your PBN file. The changes to the PBN fiile make some third party pbn file readers go a little crazy (case in point bridge composer). So if you want to use the same PBN file for different programs, you might want to make a copy of it before running the double dummy solver.

 

The changes involve adding something like this for each hand in the file (this hand the optimal contract was 7S, and the long llist of somethings is optimal results for contracts in different seats...

 

[OptimumContract "7S"]

[OptimumScore NS "1510"]

[OptimumDeclarer "N"]

[OptimumResultTable "Declarer Denomination Result"]

N C 8

N D 13

N H 6

N S 13

N NT 6

E C 5

E D 0

E H 7

E S 0

E NT 1

S C 8

S D 13

S H 6

S S 13

S NT 6

W C 4

W D 0

W H 7

W S 0

W NT 1