6322 vs undefined GF hand

[benlessard]

lets say

 

1H--1S (relay)

2D (6H)--2S GF

2NT (balanced 1 suiter)--???

 

what should be the followed up ?

 

does M or m change something ?

 

What i think is best is

 

3Nt to play

1 step Keycard in long suit start of scan.

2 step 2 ask for 3 card suit.

rest is showing a stopper.

[Zelandakh]

My scheme is:-

1H - 1S (rel)

2H (1-suiter, max) - 2S relay (gets to same point as your start)

Now

2N = 6-7 hearts, 3 spades

3C = 6-7 hearts, 3 diamonds

3D = 6-7 hearts, 3 clubs

3H = 2=7=2=2

3S and up = 8+ hearts

 

After 2N - 3C (relay)

3D = 3 clubs (3=6=1=3 or 3=7=0=3)

3H = 3 diamonds (3=6=3=1 or 3=7=3=0)

3S = 3=6=2=2

3N = 3=7=1=2

4C up = 3=7=2=1 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)

 

After 3C - 3D (relay)

3H = 3 clubs (1=6=3=3 or 0=7=3=3)

3S = 2=6=3=2

3N = 1=7=3=2

4C up = 2=7=3=1 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)

 

After 3D - 3H (relay)

3S = 2=6=2=3

3N = 1=7=2=3

4C up = 2=7=1=3 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)

 

It's essentially natural bidding with the fragments reordered for (hopefully) better optimisation.

 

The scheme over a minor is identical except that the first relay is 2H, so

1D - 1H (relay) - 2D (1-suiter, max) - 2H (relay)

2S = 6-7 diamonds, 3 hearts

2N = 6-7 diamonds, 3 spades

3C = 6-7 diamonds, 3 clubs

3D = 2=2=7=2

3H up = 8+ diamonds

 

Relay breaks are used for

a... stop asks

b... to set a suit for a cue + RKCB auction

c... to choose a final contract

d... to make a natural invite to slam

e... specialist queen ask

 

For your example case of 2NT = balanced 1-suiter I would use 3C as a relay asking for the fragment

eg

3D = 2=6=3=2

3H = 2=6=2=3

3S = 3=6=2=2

3N = 2=7=2=2

 

Obviously you could order these bids however you liked.

I like 3D, 3H and 3S here to be stopper asks in the 3 short suits even though this gives up on agreeing hearts at the 3 level. 4C and 4D (or 4C and 4H+ if you use 4D stop) are now available for any keycard asks you might like to make before completing shape relays. Even if "balanced 1-suiter" cannot include 7222 I still think it is better to have your lowest relay complete shape. Giving up a bid as a stop ask means you are not going to have full stopper-showing resolution but if it is a price you are willing to give then you can choose either 3H natural to start a cue auction or 3D to start scanning. I think the former is better here since your scans are in any case only starting at 3H-4C if you resolve shape and the additional information is useful, while 3H natural can occasionally keep you safe in 4 when off 2 quick losers in a side suit and also simplifies the issue of the trump queen. In a minor the 3 non-relay bids should certainly all be stopper asks.

[benlessard]

2N = 6-7 hearts, 3 spades

3C = 6-7 hearts, 3 diamonds

3D = 6-7 hearts, 3 clubs

3H = 2=7=2=2

3S and up = 8+ hearts

 

Im pretty sure starting by singleton is best. Wastage vs stiff mean 3NT is better than 4M. We are also showing void directly, wich is a more important feature than having 2 or 3 on the side.

 

4C up = 3=7=2=1 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)

Im thinking exactly the opposite hands where 3Nt is better than 4M are not rare at all.

 

I think a solution to my problem is using the 2nd bid to show a long suit in the unbid majors.

 

single suit D (12-14)---2H (GF)

3C (H stiff)----???

 

3D D keyc

3H 5 spades D tol. (without tol we wouldnt relay.)

3S club keyc

3Nt to play

4C S keyc

 

This mean that after long D we should show stiff clubs fisrt (since there is 2 possible majors)

[Zelandakh]

I think it depends what natural options your system has Ben. First priority is finding the right strain/game so if you cannot show 5 spades naturally you need first to find out whether Opener has 3 spades. If you build the system such that Responder has shown this hand naturally then showing shortage is clearly better. Your comment about requiring D tolerance suggests this is so but that is not clear from the OP. That's really the point about system building though isn't it? You have to see the overall system structure to fill in the details. I hope that you add the point about lack of fit to the expl you give opps!

[Crunch3nt]

What is the advantage of Keycard ask as the 1st step in scan, as opposed to symmetric style control ask (2,1 or 3,2,1 as you prefer)?

[benlessard]

our range is narrow so AKQ pts isnt necessary, so its simpler to set trumps and do spriral scan (its very efficient)

 

I would like to see a test drive comparaison of Sscan vs other methods.

[Zelandakh]

If someone does run such a comparison I would love for them to include the version of scan that looks for controls in the same style as Roman cue bids versus ace-showing cue bids. By this I mean that bidding the first step denies both the ace and the king of the longest suit (or trump suit if already set) and so on. My experience is that this speeds up the scanning process greatly without an important loss of accuracy. I am quite willing to be shown otherwise if someone has a way of simulating this.