KS system question

[pooltuna]

Playing a KS based system using weak NT(12-14) where partner expects a noncompetitive auction like 1♦ 1♥; 3♥ to show at a minimum a balanced 18-19. How does one distinguish between ♠xx ♥AJxx ♦AKxxx ♣xx and ♠xx ♥AJxx ♦AKxx ♣Axx, assuming you think the spread for a 2♥call should distinguish between these hands?

[kenrexford]

You can open 1NT with the first, which somewhat solves the problem. It may seem sick to open 1NT with that hand, but then 2452 hands with 16 HCP's often are opened 1NT playing strong 1NT openings, which may also look sick.

 

Therein lies one problem with weak notrumps -- hands like this are opened 1NT. Whereas a 16-count with 2452 shape might be more tolerable with a greater chance of a spread of values, and whereas a COV 2452 might lend itself to a light reverse or something, the KS sequence is ugly. Such is life.

[nigel_k]

You don't need 18 for a double raise if balanced. I would raise to just 2♥ on your second example but would bid 3♥ if the hand was a bit stronger. Certainly any 17 is a double raise.

 

Also I don't think the difference in playing strength between your two examples is so great that it's a major problem bidding 2♥ on both.

[babalu1997]

hand 1 lacks nt shape, but has 3 quick tricks,which translates into 15 hcp playing power

 

open 1minor and rebid 2h

[spotlight7]

Hi:

 

A single raise in KS is @15-17. You do need 18-19 to double raise.

 

Some rare hands raise to 2H with 14, however, they are 'control rich' with shape.

 

Regards,

Robert

[pooltuna]

Hi:

 

A single raise in KS is @15-17.  You do need 18-19 to double raise.

 

Some rare hands raise to 2H with 14, however, they are 'control rich' with shape.

 

Regards,

Robert

So what do you do with the first hand which had xx ajxx akxxx xx not anywhere close to 15-17? I guess you bid 1.5 {he]? Guess my problem is that I need to report to BBO that my "." is broken and I can only bid whole numbers. ;)

[BudH]

Hi:

 

A single raise in KS is @15-17.  You do need 18-19 to double raise.

 

Some rare hands raise to 2H with 14, however, they are 'control rich' with shape.

 

Regards,

Robert

So what do you do with the first hand which had xx ajxx akxxx xx not anywhere close to 15-17? I guess you bid 1.5 {he]? Guess my problem is that I need to report to BBO that my "." is broken and I can only bid whole numbers. ;)

I think the point is that

 

xx AJxx AKxxx xx

 

after responder's 1♥ bid evaluates not terribly far from 15.

 

I have opened hands with this shape 1NT frequently playing K/S. But this hand values at close to 6 to 6 1/2 losers when you consider the aces and the ♥J.

 

So calling this hand approximately worth 15 "points" is not much of a stretch. And I want partner declaring notrump, not me, when it's right to be in 3NT, another reason not to open 1NT with this hand.

[BudH]

Hi:

 

A single raise in KS is @15-17.  You do need 18-19 to double raise.

 

Some rare hands raise to 2H with 14, however, they are 'control rich' with shape.

 

Regards,

Robert

So what do you do with the first hand which had xx ajxx akxxx xx not anywhere close to 15-17? I guess you bid 1.5 {he]? Guess my problem is that I need to report to BBO that my "." is broken and I can only bid whole numbers. ;)

I think the point is that

 

xx AJxx AKxxx xx

 

after responder's 1H bid evaluates not terribly far from 15.

 

I have opened hands with this shape 1NT frequently playing K/S. But this hand values at close to 6 to 6 1/2 losers when you consider the aces and the heart jack.

 

So calling this hand approximately worth 15 "points" is not much of a stretch. And I want partner declaring notrump, not me, when it's right to be in 3NT, another reason not to open 1NT with this hand.

[mycroft]

Playing K/S, rather than SA with weak NT, 1m-1M; 2M promises 15-17 points in support of M - but it may not always have it.(*) In particular, you can't pass a 3QT hand, and some 3QT hands won't evaluate to 15-17 on certain raises.

 

The previous posters have debated the "best lie" with xx AJxx AKxxx xx. I have nothing to add except "there are bad hands for every system".

 

(*) in fact, I'm currently playing (old-fashioned, simple) K/S with one partner. That's exactly how I explain after the Alert of 2M.