Can you get to the top spot

[Cyberyeti]

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=skj8543haq74d4ck5&s=sa1076hkj83da106c64]133|200|Scoring: IMP

E opens 1♦

 

Our auction:

 

(1♦)-X-(1N)-2♦-(3♣)-P-P-4♠[/hv]

 

Partner was aware of the Spingold hand, and heading for 6♥ (and he'd have to bid it fast so it didn't look like a grand slam try which he'd make with the same hand with ♣Ax) did cross his mind as he suspected from the auction I had a 4432 weak no trump, but big prize for 6♥ by N.

[mike777]

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=skj8543haq74d4ck5&s=sa1076hkj83da106c64]133|200|Scoring: IMP

E opens 1♦

 

Our auction:

 

(1♦)-X-(1N)-2♦-(3♣)-P-P-4♠[/hv]

 

Partner was aware of the Spingold hand, and heading for 6♥ (and he'd have to bid it fast so it didn't look like a grand slam try which he'd make with the same hand with ♣Ax) did cross his mind as he suspected from the auction I had a 4432 weak no trump, but big prize for 6♥ by N.

not an easy hand.......to get to 6h by north. very tough.

[jdonn]

I can not get to the top spot.

[bluecalm]

1♦ - dbl - pass - 6♥

 

Hearts will often play better as there will be spade discards.

Such bids are discussed all the time at this forum ;)

[aguahombre]

I settle for one IMP gain via NOT committing a double with South, but then cue-ing after North's balancing double. Now North can choose the 4-4 heart fit without knowing Spingold gossip, but just using his brain.

 

If West still bids 1NT after I passed, North will still double ---and the same thing will happen.

[TylerE]

+1 on not doubling with the sound hand...

[awm]

I could see an auction like...

 

1♦ - PA - 1N - 2♠

3♣ - 3♦ - PA - 3♥

PA - 4♦ - PA...

 

Now hearts will be declared by north. South has shown a good spade raise (3♦), then expressed slam interest (4♦). We might get to 6♥ by north.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

No.

 

#1 We not make the T/O double with the South hand, we would Pass.

#2 If North makes a normal 2S overcall, we wont find the heart fit.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[bluecalm]

Are you guys serious about not doubling with S hand ?

It would not occur to me that one may pass this hand actually :( I also think passing is pretty bad.

[TylerE]

If you can double with min offshape like that, how do you bid with any accuracy over takeout doubles?

[bluecalm]

The problem is that if I don't double I often face very difficult decision later. For example:

 

1♦ pass 1NT pass

pass ????

 

We can have 9card major fit but we could go for 800 as opponents are in good position to apply penalty. Wasn't it better to double round before ?

 

1♦ pass 3♦ pass

pass ???

 

Are you willing to reopen now ? Aren't you afraid of playing 4♣ on trumps 5-2 ? Wasn't it better to double round before ?

 

1♦ pass 1♥ pass

3♦ pass pass pass

 

Are you happy ?

If yes, what about this one:

 

1♦ pass 1♥ pass

2♦ pass pass pass

 

9card spade fit just chilling nearby as they take their +90 in diamonds...

 

It's difficult to win at bridge if you pass with 4-4 majors and 12 count... I don't even consider this borderline double. Take away J♥ and one ten and we are talking about borderline.

[TylerE]

And when partner has a club invite? When partner bids expecting you to be short in ♦? I don't think it's nearly as clearcut as you suggest. The point is you expect partner to be able to listen to the auction and balance when appropriate.

[Codo]

Tyler, I bet, this had been discussed on BBF in length.

Most people believe that you should double 1 ♦ with 12 HCPS and4432. Your POV is a little oldfashioned and surely a minority view among experts.

 

And even if partner has a club invite. So you play a 5-2 fit. Not the worst possible scenario. Maybe you can even play in NT and hope to make game there.

[TylerE]

Old fashioned doesn't always mean bad.

 

I also think the people raising to 2M on 3 more than 10% of the time are nuts...

[bluecalm]

I also think the people raising to 2M on 3 more than 10% of the time are nuts...

 

Actually not raising with 3 to 2M is modern view :lol:

[kayin801]

I would X every time, and I think 3♠ by N is forcing over 3♣. If we were interested in hearing about only one of our majors he might try X instead of 3♠ (looks like t/o to me BECAUSE my X doesn't promise club length for sure).

 

From there, I'm not sure I would get to our 4-4 fit instead of our 6-4 fit, but oh well, maybe...

 

... 3♠

4♦-etc etc 6♠

 

Maybe if I find a pick-a-slam somewhere in there I can get to 6♥, but I don't really have pick-a-spam as an option as I would bid it here.

[MFA]

Armed with recently-developed bridge theory, it seems like north should just bid hearts, not spades. A majestic leap to 6♥ over 3♣ is possible, while more technically inclined bidders might prefer the slow route via 3♥-4♥ then RKC.

 

:lol:

[aguahombre]

If you can double with min offshape like that, how do you bid with any accuracy over takeout doubles?

Also see the post on aug 30 on this thread, by Lexlogan:

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=41305

 

These questions don't tend to get answered.

[Fluffy]

opps bid too much to reach slam, let alone by south.

 

after 1♦X and opps passed 6♥ by south is possible.

[hanp]

It seems to me that Tylere was asking a rhetorical question. However, in case his question was sincere, I'd be happy to give him a few pointers for how to bid in response to a modern double.

 

Pointer 1. Prefer majors over minors in response to a modern double. Unless partner has serious extra values, she is unlikely to hold fewer than 3 cards in an unbid major but the same is not necessarily true for an unbid minor.

 

Pointer 2. As partner can be a little bit lighter than what you may be used to, and doesn't always have 4-card support for your suit, you should respond a little more conservatively. Don't automatically jump with a 4-card major and an 8-count, unless you are particularly fond of your hand.

 

Pointer 3. With a good but flexible hand, try to bid flexibly to maximize your chance of finding the best strain.

 

Pointer 4. If you make a minimal 1M response and the opponents compete, partner will often raise to 2M with 4-card support and a hand she is not ashamed of. This means that if partner doesn't raise, we shouldn't play her for such a hand and compete to 2M ourselves unless our hand warrants it. Also, if partner does raise, we shouldn't play her for a monster.

 

Pointer 5. If RHO preemptively raises, don't assume that partner is short in their suits unless your holding and the bidding of the opponents suggests it. However, partner would sooner make a modern double with values in the other suits, so if you have a shortness yourself and some points, it may be a good time to compete.

 

If the modern style is not for you, no problem, but please stop whining about it.

[hanp]

I agree with Fluffy btw, I wouldn't get there after this much bidding by the opponents. Maybe after

 

(1D) - X - 2D

2H - 2S

3S - 4C

4D - ...

 

responder can see what's going on, but it won't be possible to get to 6H from the north. In fact I don't think I'd get to 6H by north after any start.

[Cyberyeti]

I agree with Fluffy btw, I wouldn't get there after this much bidding by the opponents. Maybe after

 

(1D) - X - 2D

2H - 2S

3S - 4C

4D - ...

 

responder can see what's going on, but it won't be possible to get to 6H from the north. In fact I don't think I'd get to 6H by north after any start.

Unopposed we'd have a shot, 1N(12-14)-2♥(spades)-3♥(4 spades, 4 decent hearts), now it's perfectly feasible to reach 6♥ by N as he can visualise that it's better to play in the 4-4 fit.