billw55 Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 pickup partner, opps silent: 1♣ - 1♠1NT - 2♦2♠ - 3♣? Is pass possible here? Or is 3♣ forcing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 With a pickup partner you never know, but I would say it was forcing. It all depends on what 1♣ - 1♠ - 1NT - 3♣ means. If the direct 3♣ is forcing, then the slow 3♣ is to play, and vice versa. I am sure that most would say the slow route is stronger. EDIT: I assumed that 2♦ was NMF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 If you're not playing new minor forcing, then 2♦ was NF and opener's hand is limited, so 3♣ is clearly NF. If you are playing new minor forcing (most do, but it's not strictly standard) then either treatment makes sense, but this sequence should have the opposite meaning of 1♣-1♠-1NT-3♣ (i.e. one should be invitational to game and the other forcing). The "more standard" modern treatment is that jumps in previously mentioned suits are invitational to game; examples include 1♣-1♠-3♠ and 1♣-1♠-3♣ and 1♣-1♠-2♣-3♠. Under this interpretation, 1♣-1♠-1NT-3♣ would be invitational (not forcing). It follows that 1♣-1♠-1NT-2♦-2X-3♣ would be forcing to game. Note that the (somewhat dated) Root and Pavlicek "Modern Bridge Conventions" book endorses the opposite treatment, and indeed there are substantial advantages to that approach, however I would view it as "less standard" than the discussion above. What a pickup partner on BBO will think is anyone's guess -- I do not think this is the sort of sequence where there is universal agreement or where every intermediate to advanced player who "knows" new minor force will be on the same wavelength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 not possible and forcing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Fing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEferBRID Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 1m - 1M1NT - 2om! ( NMF )2any - 3m = GF and shows Responder's real intent : support for Opener's minor and cancels interest in Responder's Major ( have only 4 of them ). If Responder wanted an invite ( or weak depending on your prior agreements) in Opener's minor, he would have jumped to 3m over 1NT:1m - 1M1NT - 3m ( weak ...or invitational ) In general:" All jumps are weak ( or invitational) whereas GF bids go thru NMF first ". Here is another:1m - 1M1NT - 2om!2any- 3M = GF And one more:1m - 1M1NT -2om!2any- 3om = GF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Fing orc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 not possible and forcingNot possible? Not only possible, but slammish and forcing in our world. No other way to create a force with club support. AKXX XX A KQXXXX is one of many hands "possible". With lots of lesser hands, responder would have just placed the contract, knowing opener has a weaker weak NT with 3 spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Definitely forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vuroth Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Forcing either way, but I would very much assume 2♦ was NOT nmf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 not possible and forcingNot possible? Not only possible, but slammish and forcing in our world. No other way to create a force with club support. AKXX XX A KQXXXX is one of many hands "possible". With lots of lesser hands, responder would have just placed the contract, knowing opener has a weaker weak NT with 3 spades. if you are slammish then pass is still possible? I was answering OPs 2 questions in sequence. I.e. the call was not only forcing but passing was inconcievable <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Pass is always possible, but it's not advisable after a clear forcing call B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 not possible and forcingNot possible? Not only possible, but slammish and forcing in our world. No other way to create a force with club support. AKXX XX A KQXXXX is one of many hands "possible". With lots of lesser hands, responder would have just placed the contract, knowing opener has a weaker weak NT with 3 spades. if you are slammish then pass is still possible? I was answering OPs 2 questions in sequence. I.e. the call was not only forcing but passing was inconcievable B) Sorry, Pool. I thought it was the same question, asked redundantly ---and that you were saying the bid was impossible. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucky Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 Being forcing is clear. The next question is how many spades are now promised? NMF is often based on 5-card in the first responded major, does 3♣ now cancel that message? If so, then what do you do with 5+ spades and a slammish hand? Maybe if you play strong jump shift this would not be a problem (as you would have bid 2S earlier with good spades and clubs), but what if you don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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