Multi 2D

[MickyB]

The multi is commonly played with the strong options being a balanced range and strong 2s in the minors. The problem here is that when partner bounces opposite the strong option, you have preempted yourself and haven't even found a fit. It would seem to make more sense for the strong options to promise at least 5 cards in a major, then if partner bounces then you have your fit.

 

The two logical alternatives that I've come up with are 5+cards in a major, game forcing, and 6+ cards in a major, acol 2 strength. Could these both be included, or would this make subsquent bidding too hard? Which would you prefer? Would this change if I told you I had no other forcing bid that I could make with a 5 card major?!

 

Thanks

[Gerardo]

What do you use the 2M opening for? if use Multi, they could be Acol like

[Free]

I don't see any problems with multi, certainly not when after preempting. I'm used to play this weak-2M or GF ANY suit or some NT range, haven't had much problems after preempting from partner...

[inquiry]

This is a bad idea imo. Here is why...

 

Say you use 2D to be really good hands with a major or really weak ones. It is fine if the opponents stay out of the auction, but if they get active, and you bid up your major, your partner will not be able to tell if you are weak or strong. Let me give you a hypothetical

 

2D - (2H) - 3S - 4H

?

 

What if you bid 4S now do you have the weak or strong hand? This problem goes away where you have either Weak major or strong minor.

 

It is easy to separate between balanced and strong, or minor and strong, and a major and weak... but it muddies the water to include major and stong with major and weak....

 

Ben

[MickyB]

Gerado: My 2M openers Dutch/Muiderberg (5M,4-5m).

 

Free: Have you never had an auction 2♦:4♥ where opener has a GF with a minor, and responder, unsuprisingly, has 4-4 in the majors? Or do you still manage to reach the correct contract after this start?

 

Inquiry: We wouldn't normally bid 2♦-(2♥)-3♠ anyway without sufficient ♥ length to be sure that opener didn't have ♥, and even then only if the opponents didn't look like they might psyche! Instead we would use a pass-or-correct double. Even on this auction, I have described my hand and partner has chosen to bid 3♠, going to 4♠ is up to him, not me, so 4♠ would clearly show a strong 2 IMO.

[Free]

What's the problem if you the bidding goes 2♦-4♥ and you have a GF hand in a minor?? Just bid 5m... :) I hope you don't open these GF hands with a 4-card M

[MickyB]

No, but responder could be weak or reasonably strong, have a fit or not. The best spot could be 3N or it could be 7m.

[Free]

If he's weak, then he'll pass. You have the GameForce, so you should make 5m. If he's strong, he can still continue bidding (controls or so). Nobody said 5m is the end of the bidding :)

[inquiry]

If he's weak, then he'll pass. You have the GameForce, so you should make 5m. If he's strong, he can still continue bidding (controls or so). Nobody said 5m is the end of the bidding :)

For once, I agree wtih FREE... with an added caveat... In may partnerships, I don;t use 2D-P-4H as pass correct.

 

I paly 2D-P-4M as partner, hearts is MY suit and i want to play there.. else what do you bid when partner opens 2D and you hold x AKQJT987 x xxx or whatever you have and you want to be iin 4H opposite a weak 2S opener in SAYC...

 

I bid over 2D, 3NT with 4/4 in the majors wanting partner to pass correct, or 4C with 4S and 5H or 4D with 5S and 4H. This works out very well when partner has the big balanced hand and no four card major, he passes 3NT, and we can always play the 5-2 or 5-3 major fit if he has that hand. In addition, it works well with the strong minor hand as well, as responder can show his minor at the four level (over 3NT or sometimes of 4C), can get to a surpirse major fit (if holding four card major, or three card major over 4 of a minor), or as free says, can bid 5 of a minor which is far from ending the auction.

 

Ben

[Antoine Fourrière]

Well, I've suggested it elsewhere, but how about:

 

2♣ always weak, 6-card major or 5-5 with at least one major

2♦ minimum three-suiter with short diamonds (maybe 5431) or unbalanced game force

2♥, 2♠ 11-15 with four cards and five clubs, seldom 3 cards in the other major

2N good club preempt, may optionally be part of a multi

3♣ 12-14 with 6 clubs?

 

Advantages

 

When you open a natural 2♣, you often want to know what opener really has. Here, you get that answer before the defense begins to double. Only the 2N opening is a bit dangerous.

You do not spoil your 1♣ opening either with 12-15 HCP hands or with unbalanced hands.

You treat one-suiters and serious two-suiters the same, and the defense has no sort it out. Besides, once you get a double major fit, say 2♣ 3♥, a one-suiter or a two-suiter offer comparable potential.

[MickyB]

Antoine: I considered the option of splitting up the Precision 2♣ before (I think at your suggestion) as it seems reasonable to me, but I couldn't find any material on it all. Anyone else have any experience of this? I'm slightly worried that your method will compete past the par score too frequently, I suspect it would be better to use 2♣ for one of the meanings (probably 2♣ = 5♣4M and 3♣=6♣, but possibly 2♣=6♣ and 2M=4M5♣).

 

Inquiry: I like your suggestion for finding the right spot when opener is balanced, a definite improvement on standard methods, but I still think the auctions where opener has a strong hand with a long minor are lacking accuracy. One more question: What do you bid with both majors, wanting to play game opposite a weak 2 but slam opposite your balanced range?

[inquiry]

One more question: What do you bid with both majors, wanting to play game opposite a weak 2 but slam opposite your balanced range?

I bid 2NT.. opener then defines his hand (3♣ is balanced big hand, so 3[ci] rebid by the 2NT bidder is then stayman).

 

Ben

[helene_t]

Ben: If you play 4♥ as pass-or-correct, a hand that just wants to play 4♥ goes via 2NT. That's better, I think, on the basis of frequency.

 

In the Netherlands, most people play 2♦ as multi including a semiforcing in clubs or diamonds. That is a good candidate for the "name the worst convention" thread. Not only because partner will preempt with a weak hand with support for both majors, but also because you can't pass 2♦ with a weak hand with diamonds, and because too much biddingspace is gone after

2♦-2♥

3m

Much better just to open 1m with a semi-GF hand.

[inquiry]

Ben: If you play 4♥ as pass-or-correct, a hand that just wants to play 4♥ goes via 2NT. That's better, I think, on the basis of frequency.

Hi, I don't understand the frequency part of your statement. I assume when your partner opens 2♦ and you just want to play 4♥ no matter what his hand is (assumie it is weak two in spade)...that frequency is the same rather you use an immediate 4♥ as natural to play or bid 2NT first.

 

As far as "worse" convention ever for bundling a strong semi-forcing minor in with 2♦, you can still pass 2♦ if you have basically zero tricks and a long diamond suit, after all parner didn't open 2♣. And if you bid 2♥ pass/correct partner will now show hs minor. So you paly in 3 of his minor rahter than potentially one. But my 2♦ opening bids when holding a minor show that I can take 9 tricks to 9.5 tricks in my minor opposite a singleton (I can play in slam oppostie a singleton is a requirement so no more than one loser in principle). I can't see how playing for a sure 9 tricks is worse than playing for an unsure 8 tricks in your weak diamond suit.

 

But, to each there own. I have heard many, many people bemoan mullti-2D with anything other than a weak two in the major because they like the pass the 2♦ with diamonds. The theory is to catch the good second hand with a major suit which passed over 2♦ with a good hand so they could wait to see what suit the opponent held before acting. That gets a lot of people I am sure, but what I do in second seat is Multi-vs-Multi. When they open 2♦ against me, I double with any major suited hand, or a three suiter, or a big balanced hand, and my partner and I sue pass/correct and the like as defenders. I bid 2♥ over 2♦ with a balanced hand and a normal 1NT opener (partenr can pass 2♥ or correct to 2♠ with five card suits and weak. I bid 2♠ as a normal 2♦ overcall, and partner can use 2NT to show some modest values and at least mild club fit and 3♣ as weaker hand. I use 2NT over 2♦ as diamond suit with same inbetween bid of 3♣, and I use 3♣ and 3♦ over the multi 2♦ as preemptive. So I not passing over 2♦ with a good hand or many weak hands or even intermediate hands with a suit. So I can't recall a time when I was burned by 2D-P-P-P... although as a kibitzer I ahve seen that get others,

 

Ben

[mishovnbg]

You can't play 2♦ as multi with only with weak options, because this way is brown sticker, so I will not comment it.

The best way is 2♦ to include strong major 2 suiter, besides weak 2 in major. Same strong option give you 2 advantages:

- Any bid from responder as answer of weak 2 of major is also useful for strong major 2 suiter, especially in competition.

- You can play wide range of 1 major opening without losing game in other major when your p pass.

Misho

[Free]

You can't play 2♦ as multi with only with weak options, because this way is brown sticker

B) :) ???HUH??? :) :)

[Chamaco]

Another advantage of using Multi is that your strong 2C opening are "cleaner": they will be either balanced or one suited GF in a major.

 

This is because:

- minor suit gf are included in Multi

- major suit semiforcing are included in 2M

- 2 suited with a 5+ major are opened via 2M

 

Having narrowed the range of hand types in the 2C opener, you can use Paradox resposes to 2C openings, which I think is fairly effective given the underlying flaws of the 2C opening:

http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/tw...s.htm#responses