3 or 4-card raise

[InTime]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sak842hj972dqjck9&s=sq9hak654da85ca62]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

We are playing 2/1.

My question is how do you show a 3 or 4-card raise with the following bidding?:

1♠ - (Pass) - 2♥ - Pass

? How do you show a 3 or 4-card raise?

The fact that you have a 3-card or a 4-card raise can be of great importance here.

If you just bid 3♥, your partner will never know if you raised on 3 or 4.

Regards

[hanp]

Valid question, and I'm afraid to say that I cannot distinguish between the two with my regular partner.

 

Mind you, I wouldn't bid 2H on this hand but 2C (GF relay) after which opener immediately shows 4+ hearts so we do find out, but if responder's hand is weaker we would bid 2H and have the same problem.

 

I know Wortel-Schollaardt play that 3H shows 4, and with only 3 hearts they bid 2S. Over 2S, responder can relay to find 3-card support. I haven't played this so I can't judge whether it is better.

[mgoetze]

I thought you show the 4th heart by pretending to have the trump queen when partner asks. ;)

[Fluffy]

with 4 card raise you normally have a singleton in a minor and splinter accordingly. 3 card limit raise can be overloaded with 5422

[OleBerg]

3♥ with 3-cardsupport.

 

4♥ with 4 cards and minimum. Cuebid with more than minimum.

 

You might consider using 3NT as artificial. Might be used as a four-card raise and not minimum, in which case 4♣/♦ can be splinter.

[Free]

For me:

2♠ = almost any hand with <16HCP, can still have 3♥ (not 4+♥)

2NT = 16+, no shortness (5332/54m22/6322/7222) => 2-3♥

3♥ = 16+, 4+♥ / 16+, 3♥ with shortness

3NT = <16HCP, 5422, values in the doubletons

4m = <16HCP, 4+♥, shortness m

4♥ = <16HCP, 5422, weak doubletons

 

With the above hand, we'd rebid 3NT.

 

I don't like Han's suggestion to start with a 2♣ GF relay, because it's not always clear for me if partner has 3♥ or not (usually it is, but there are some problem hands). On the other hand, it makes it easier to find 5-3 minor fits...

 

With a poor 5 card ♥ I'd definitely start with 2♣ for sure, so we'll only play in ♥ when we have a sure 9 card fit.

[Phil]

I can't, but 1♠-2♥ is a bulky auction. 4♥ would be a picture bid denying a minor suit control.

[Finch]

I also play a load of artificiality after 1S - 2H to distinguish range and number of hearts (1S - 2H - 3H is about 15+ with 3 hearts or 5422, 2S is multi-way including minimum hands with heart support).

[ONEferBRID]

For me:

2♠ = almost any hand with <16HCP, can still have 3♥ (not 4+♥)

2NT = 16+, no shortness (5332/54m22/6322/7222) => 2-3♥

3♥ = 16+, 4+♥ / 16+, 3♥ with shortness

3NT = <16HCP, 5422, values in the doubletons

4m = <16HCP, 4+♥, shortness m

4♥ = <16HCP, 5422, weak doubletons

 

With the above hand, we'd rebid 3NT.

 

I think Free's system makes sense, and it's not complicated.

[OleBerg]

For me:

2♠ = almost any hand with <16HCP, can still have 3♥ (not 4+♥)

2NT = 16+, no shortness (5332/54m22/6322/7222) => 2-3♥

3♥ = 16+, 4+♥ / 16+, 3♥ with shortness

3NT = <16HCP, 5422, values in the doubletons

4m = <16HCP, 4+♥, shortness m

4♥ = <16HCP, 5422, weak doubletons

 

With the above hand, we'd rebid 3NT.

 

I think Free's system makes sense, and it's not complicated.

Well, I guess my "3 shows 3" and "4 shows 4", was to much after all. :)

[ONEferBRID]

Well, I guess my "3 shows 3" and "4 shows 4", was too much after all.  ;)

sry... your way is simpler... <_<

[PrinceNep]

3♥ with 3-cardsupport.

 

4♥ with 4 cards and minimum. Cuebid with more than minimum.

 

You might consider using 3NT as artificial. Might be used as a four-card raise and not minimum, in which case 4♣/♦ can be splinter.

What in this auction would be a Cuebid? Wouldn't everything else be natural? I'm not sure I'm ready to let the auction 1S-2H-3m to be a cuebid in support of hearts and not be natural. I'm far more likely to need these calls as natural than I am to show a 16+ with 4+♥ hand. If I bid 2♠ with these hands, then we need a relay sequence ... now your system of 3♥ shows 3 and 4♥ shows 4 is not so easy.

 

I would also think that 2NT and 3NT would be far more useful to show range than to be used artificially. Partner and I play 12-14/18+ 2NT rebid and 15-17 3NT rebid in these auctions. Making either of these artificial would put a lot of strain on opener.

 

What alternatives are there?

[OleBerg]

3♥ with 3-cardsupport.

 

4♥ with 4 cards and minimum. Cuebid with more than minimum.

 

You might consider using 3NT as artificial. Might be used as a four-card raise and not minimum, in which case 4♣/♦ can be splinter.

What in this auction would be a Cuebid? Wouldn't everything else be natural? I'm not sure I'm ready to let the auction 1S-2H-3m to be a cuebid in support of hearts and not be natural. I'm far more likely to need these calls as natural than I am to show a 16+ with 4+♥ hand. If I bid 2♠ with these hands, then we need a relay sequence ... now your system of 3♥ shows 3 and 4♥ shows 4 is not so easy.

 

I would also think that 2NT and 3NT would be far more useful to show range than to be used artificially. Partner and I play 12-14/18+ 2NT rebid and 15-17 3NT rebid in these auctions. Making either of these artificial would put a lot of strain on opener.

 

What alternatives are there?

Cuebid is 4♣/4♦.

 

I'm not really that experienced in 2/1, but I would prefer to put a balanced range in 2♠, rather than 3-card support, if you cant stand 2NT being 11+.

 

(Maybe saying that all minimum hands bid 2♠.)

 

Anyways, it was just a suggestion. The idée is very usefull in a non-2/1 context. In 2/1 others will be better judges.

[mike777]

Dealer: North Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP

♠ AK842 ♥ J972 ♦ QJ ♣ K9 ♠ Q9 ♥ AK654 ♦ A85 ♣ A62

We are playing 2/1.

My question is how do you show a 3 or 4-card raise with the following bidding?:

1♠ - (Pass) - 2♥ - Pass

? How do you show a 3 or 4-card raise?

The fact that you have a 3-card or a 4-card raise can be of great importance here.

If you just bid 3♥, your partner will never know if you raised on 3 or 4.

Regards

I can't except as others have mentioned..I can splinter with 4 card support or if responder starts rkc I can show the Q or extra length.