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Hairy_Scot
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bluecalm

bluecalm

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If 2♦ and 4♦ were natural then 4♦ should show strong hand with solid diamonds in that case we can count at lesat 13tricks in 7NT if aces are not missing.

I bid RKCB whatever way you have for that and bid 7NT having all keycards and 6♦ lacking one (because then they could open hearts before we establish diamonds.

 

4♥ - Kickback.

 

I doubt kickback is standard. I don't think it's neither necessary nor especially useful. Playing it also require a lot of partnership work.

I would prefer to have ♥ cuebid available in that auction instead of "kickback".

 

What is kickback?

 

It's a convention which uses bids below 4NT as RKCB in the minor leaving you more space as well as 4NT for other purposes (like natural to play for example o some kind of general slam invite)

There are many versions as to what bid is kickback in various situations.

The convention is virtually unknown in some parts of the world but popular in NA from what this forum seems to suggest.

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TSMYOYO

TSMYOYO

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What is kickback?

 

It's a convention which uses bids below 4NT as RKCB in the minor leaving you more space as well as 4NT for other purposes (like natural to play for example o some kind of general slam invite)

There are many versions as to what bid is kickback in various situations.

The convention is virtually unknown in some parts of the world but popular in NA from what this forum seems to suggest.

Thanks bluecalm. I had never heard of kickback.

 

I would think that 2♦ shows 8+ HCP and 5+♦.

4♦ could be "fast arrival" in which case 5♦ would be the limit.

 

However BW or RKCB does have merit since 5♦ is still available as a safety net if the response is unfavourable.

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kayin801

kayin801

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I would expect 4♦ to be slam invitational at worst with diamonds, diamonds, and more diamonds, since partner opted to skip an entire level of bidding and eliminated 3NT as a possibility. Use whatever your bid for RKC is and get to the right number of diamonds or 7NT.

 

Edit: sniped by bluecalm :)

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TSMYOYO

TSMYOYO

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4♦ could be "fast arrival"

 

No. With weak hand you never jump in minor above 3NT in GF auction.

Besides, how is 4♦ "arrival" ? :)

We don't want to play there afterall...

OK, perhaps "fast arrival" is not quite the correct term, perhaps I should have used "large steps (jumps) when weak (min), small steps when strong" in line with the modern tendency to jump with weaker hands and go slowly with stronger hands.

 

I do agree that 4♦ could be slam invite but this can vary with different partnership styles.

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cloa513

cloa513

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I'd say 4♦ is exactly the opposite- to play. 3♦ is a hand with slam potential - who would offer diamonds again over 2NT rather than just 3NT or offering 4 card major or clubs. 4♦ is to play unless you have an exceptional hand such a doubleton and top controls in the other suits, then you bid the 5♦. He stretched bidding 2♦ in the first place hoping for you to either bid the 3NT direct or another suit. Responses for 3♦: 3NT(diamonds support and good suit coverage but low slam potential, 4♦ poor diamonds support poor slam potential, other bids are cues.
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bluecalm

bluecalm

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I'd say 4♦ is exactly the opposite- to play. 3♦ is a hand with slam potential - who would offer diamonds again over 2NT rather than just 3NT or offering 4 card major or clubs. 4♦ is to play unless

 

You must've read the sequence wrong...

Maybe you missed that it's precision so 2♦ is 8+ and 1♣ is 16+ but playing 4♦ to play is beyond bad in every possible system here.

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blackshoe

blackshoe

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I doubt kickback is standard. I don't think it's neither necessary nor especially useful. Playing it also require a lot of partnership work.

I would prefer to have ♥ cuebid available in that auction instead of "kickback".

I didn't say it was standard (I agree it isn't). I disagree as to its usefulness, though. 4NT would replace the 4♥ control bid.

 

What is kickback?

 

It's a convention which uses bids below 4NT as RKCB in the minor leaving you more space as well as 4NT for other purposes (like natural to play for example o some kind of general slam invite)

There are many versions as to what bid is kickback in various situations.

The convention is virtually unknown in some parts of the world but popular in NA from what this forum seems to suggest.

 

Kickback is based on Jeff Rubens' "Useful Space" principle, and uses 4 of the denomination directly above trumps (including 4♠ where ♥ are trumps) as RKCB*. It's true that some work is required to ensure you know when the bid is kickback and when it is not. So what? If you want to do well at this game, you have to expect to work at it. :)

 

*If some other bid is RKCB, it ain't kickback.

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cloa513

cloa513

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Posted
I'd say 4♦ is exactly the opposite- to play. 3♦ is a hand with slam potential - who would offer diamonds again over 2NT rather than just 3NT or offering 4 card major or clubs. 4♦ is to play unless

 

You must've read the sequence wrong...

Maybe you missed that it's precision so 2♦ is 8+ and 1♣ is 16+ but playing 4♦ to play is beyond bad in every possible system here.

I saw its precision- it just depends on whether you allow partner to reach a little with KQJxxxxx ♦ or perhaps AQxxxx♦ Jx(suit) Jx (suit). Do you rebid 3NT with KQx KQx xxx KQJx perhaps even four card major after 1♣,2♦?

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bluecalm

bluecalm

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Why bid 4♦ which wastes space to cue when 3♦ is available? If your hand is way shapely and strong then wouldn't a self-cue be more efficient i.e. 4♣ or 4♥ or 4♠ maybe making it exclusion blackwood.

 

You may have solid diamonds and you want partner to know about this.

I don't see any point in driving to 4♦ with weakish hand bypassing 3NT and all lower partscores.

If my hand isn't GF I don't bid 2♦ with that.

I can bid 1♦ and then show maximum with long diamonds (by jumping to 3♦).

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JLOGIC

JLOGIC

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You may have solid diamonds and you want partner to know about this.

Meh, I doubt that getting the "I have solid trumps" message across is worth wasting the entire level of bidding space when partner has shown a balanced hand. It's usually much more important when partner is unbalanced.

 

Personally I think 4D should be keycard. Over 4D if it was natural I would def bid keycard myself, doesnt really matter what bid it is. In fact I'd strongly prefer it to be 4N than 4H with this hand since I don't want them to double 4H, and the extra space is not needed. It's a simple hand if we have them all we bid 7N, if we're off 1 we bid 6D.

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keylime

keylime

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Posted

I followup with 6NT.

 

Pard should be showing semi-solid to solid diamonds. I am not going to tho bank on pard holding A♣, and AKQ♦. Pard should convert to 7 if he has this hand.

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bluecalm

bluecalm

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Meh, I doubt that getting the "I have solid trumps" message across is worth wasting the entire level of bidding space when partner has shown a balanced hand. It's usually much more important when partner is unbalanced.

 

I agree that maybe using 4♦ for something else than solid diamonds is better option. I have no opinion. I don't like keycard but only because it would require writing fat section in system notes on what bid is keycard in what sequence. I don't deny it might theoretically superior way to play.

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Hairy_Scot

Hairy_Scot

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4D shows a solid suit and asks for cues in every version of Precision I have ever played and with every partner with whom I have ever played. Hence 4H is not kickback for us, but a cue bid.

I agree.

 

This hand was sent to me by my old club partner and back in the day that is certainly how we would have interpretted the sequence.

2♦ = 8+ HCP and 5+♦

2NT = 16-19 in our system (16-18 otherwise)

4♦ = solid suit (7/8+) headed by AKQ

4♥ would show first round control (hoping to hear 5♣)

 

I just wanted to see how some of our modern theorists would approach it. :)

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