Precision problem

[CSGibson]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sak64hak872dqcaqj]133|100|Scoring: MP

1♣*-(1♥)-2♣*-(2♦),

?[/hv]

 

1♣ is 16+ HCP, any shape

2♣ is natural, non-forcing, showing 5+ clubs and around 5-8 HCP.

Opponents bids are natural.

[bluecalm]

dbl ?

wtp ?

 

If partner bid spades afte that we raise. If he bids clubs we bid 3♦ asking for stopper if he bid NT we raise or bid 3♦.

[CSGibson]

dbl ?

wtp ?

 

If partner bid spades afte that we raise. If he bids clubs we bid 3♦ asking for stopper if he bid NT we raise or bid 3♦.

really? Shouldn't X be penalty over the bidder after three different natural bids and a partner who has claimed the hand? Or is it really more useful to say that you have exactly 4 spades?

[hanp]

Would 2H be forcing?

[mycroft]

I've been told by the best Precision pair in the area to play XXX - the first two doubles, by either hand, are takeout over interference after third hand (conversion, of course, is possible, and transmutes future doubles to penalty). So I would play double as takeout of diamonds - including hearts (how often has that "natural" 1H been a psychic, or 4 rag (with a second suit), or effectively "13 cards, some of which are hearts" against you? - and the 2-level cuebid doesn't really have much other meaning by the semi-positive) and would double with this hand. Pass would show convertable values - I assume Precision club + semipositive = forcing to 2NT or so (I play dbl= any semipositive, rather than direct bids).

 

Yes, I want to investigate a major contract, even if I've luckily rightsided the club game/slam. And if second-hand has the reds, her next call could easily be 4+D. 1C-1H-2C-2D; 2S-5D and if partner supports, does he have 3? Qx? QTxx xx xx KTxxx? I'd much prefer spades to be a real suit in this auction.

[Apollo81]

2♥. I'm heading to slam in some suit or other (tbd later) over any non-notrump bid by partner.

[bill1157]

I like a non-forcing 6♣

[CSGibson]

Would 2H be forcing?

yes, cue-bids are forcing.

[gnasher]

Would 2H be forcing?

yes, cue-bids are forcing.

How do I show hearts?

[mikegill]

I think this is an easy 2♥ bid. Since they've bid two suits this should just show heart values and a good hand. It's possible we back into hearts if they psyched but for now we'll get a natural description out of partner. If it's not NT then I'm probably bidding keycard for clubs next (or raising clubs with the intention of bidding keycard next).

[CSGibson]

Would 2H be forcing?

yes, cue-bids are forcing.

How do I show hearts?

I cannot show hearts after someone has overcalled hearts in front of me, unfortunately. We haven't designed our system around exposing psychic actions.

[Hairy_Scot]

My committee reckons it has to be 2♥

[JLOGIC]

2H, I don't want to defend 2D X at these colors even if partner can pass.

[hanp]

It seems to me that either 2H or 3H should be natural. I'd bid 2H in either case, as long as it is forcing.

 

I also wouldn't publically announce that I can't handle psyches after my strong 1C opening.

[JLOGIC]

It seems to me that either 2H or 3H should be natural. I'd bid 2H in either case, as long as it is forcing.

 

I also wouldn't publically announce that I can't handle psyches after my strong 1C opening.

Funny story:

 

Before every tournament I remind my dad that 1C 1X 1/2y p 2X = natural. It never came up and everyone told me I was retarded for playing this, but please note we are in a GF auction when we free bid over their 1X in our system.

 

Anyways, I was playing against fred and hampson and they were down quite a bit, so it goes 1C (1D) 2C p and I have a natural 2D bid...hampson had psyched 1D and we were cold for 6D! But I forgot to remind my partner before this tournament and it was the first time in years that its come up so he forgot :(

 

I do think that when you're not yet in a GF though, you must have a cuebid available to create that game force, so playing 2H natural in *this* auction is not practical or good. That doesn't mean 2H followed by 3H isn't natural though (3H being bid once the GF has been established, so same principle).

 

As far as playing the direct jump to 3x as natural, I think that's way too valuable/common of a splinter to lose.

[hanp]

Just saying you need a way to show hearts. Or diamonds!

[Vilgan]

Some sort of way to bid ♥/♦ naturally seems nice. That aside, just thumping out 6♣ doesn't seem like a terrible call. Lots of things you need to find out like partner shape, major suits Qs, etc to determine the correct level (5/6/7) that I'm not sure is very doable here.

[CSGibson]

Lets say that you thump out 6♣ (which I did at the table, right or wrong).

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sq3hj9dt872ckt962&s=sak64hak872dqcaqj]133|200|Scoring: MP

1♣*-(1♥)-2♣*-(2♦),

6♣ All pass[/hv]

 

The lead is the ♦King, 2-3-Q (standard attitude). Next the ♦9 to the T-J-♣Q.

 

The two lines I considered are:

 

1) ♠ to the Q, ruff a ♦ with the ♣A, then overtake the ♣J, playing for 3-2 ♣ OR

 

2) ♣ honor from hand, ♠A-Q, ruff a ♦, low ♠, planning on ruffing small.

 

Which do you think is the better line (or is there an even better one I didn't consider)?

 

If it makes a difference in choosing your line, LHO is an intermediate player, RHO advanced (using BBO defs)

[CSGibson]

Just saying you need a way to show hearts. Or diamonds!

We use a penalty X to show diamonds here. Justin's suggestion seems very good in terms of showing hearts.

[JLOGIC]

If LHO has 5 spades then clubs are 4-1 anyways since he has 5521. The only time playing for 3-2 clubs and LHO having 5 spades is right is if LHO is 5422 which seems random to play for given the 1H overcall. So I would definitely just play to ruff a spade low in dummy.

[Fluffy]

yeah ruff a spade, maybe you can try ♥A first in case stiff queen drops, but also they might ruff it so not worth it IMO.

[JLOGIC]

yeah ruff a spade, maybe you can try ♥A first in case stiff queen drops, but also they might ruff it so not worth it IMO.

Definitely seems not worth it, if this hand had not been posted then I would have thought ruffing a spade was closer to 100 % than 99 % so I won't use that UI!

[keylime]

2♥, loud and proud. Double is atrocious here.

[dburn]

dbl ?

wtp ?

 

If partner bid spades afte that we raise. If he bids clubs we bid 3♦ asking for stopper if he bid NT we raise or bid 3♦.

really? Shouldn't X be penalty over the bidder after three different natural bids and a partner who has claimed the hand? Or is it really more useful to say that you have exactly 4 spades?

If partner has "claimed the hand", then presumably we can make a forcing pass here (and I would prefer that to a natural 2♥). But since 2♣ was apparently not forcing, neither of us has actually "claimed the hand" - we were not compelled to bid beyond 2♣, so in theory at any rate we can pass the opponents out in 2♦.

 

In short: if pass is forcing then it is a kind of "takeout pass" and appears sounder to me than 2♥, which should be a more one-suited hand; moreover, if pass is forcing then double is penalty (yes, I know it is possible to play otherwise, but it is not actually very sensible). If pass is not forcing, then double is takeout and I would double (after which bids of hearts by either side are natural - that double was takeout of diamonds, not hearts). I recommend that pass be forcing (and that these semi-positives are in fact played as forcing for one round), but that is up to you.