Another ridiculous ruling

[wank]

i realise it won't do any good, but everyone loves a good whine, right?

 

it was a goulash tournament with undos for misclicks....fine.

 

the lead was in dummy. declarer had a trump suit of AKQ1098532 opposite a void and dummy had a spade suit of AK107432 opposite declarer's void. the rest of declarer's hand was high.

 

declarer evidently resolved to get to hand by ruffing a spade. he led the ace, not that it makes any difference. I ruffed in front of declarer with the singleton jack of trumps, declarer ruffed with the 2, no doubt not realising it was possible for a suit to break anything other than 3-3.

 

declarer called the director claiming it was a misclick, even though he had 5 other cards/trumps between the Q or higher he needed to play to overruff and the 2 he actually played.

 

the director agreed with him and told me to press undo, so [entirely politely] i made the point about the intervening 5 cards and was threatened with expulsion and banning from future tournaments if i didn't click undo immediately

[ArtK78]

i realise it won't do any good, but everyone loves a good whine, right?

 

it was a goulash tournament with undos for misclicks....fine.

 

the lead was in dummy. declarer had a trump suit of AKQ1098532 opposite a void and dummy had a spade suit of AK107432 opposite declarer's void. the rest of declarer's hand was high.

 

declarer evidently resolved to get to hand by ruffing a spade. he led the ace, not that it makes any difference. I ruffed in front of declarer with the singleton jack of trumps, declarer ruffed with the 2, no doubt not realising it was possible for a suit to break anything other than 3-3.

 

declarer called the director claiming it was a misclick, even though he had 5 other cards/trumps between the Q or higher he needed to play to overruff and the 2 he actually played.

 

the director agreed with him and told me to press undo, so [entirely politely] i made the point about the intervening 5 cards and was threatened with expulsion and banning from future tournaments if i didn't click undo immediately

While I sympathize with your position, you might as well beat your head against a wall rather than argue with a TD's ruling at the virtual table.

[jkdood]

You make a good point (or whine.)

 

And I understand it.

 

But to be honest, with some dexterity problems in an overall fast-paced clicking environment using touchpad...

 

...I usually immediately hover over the card I plan to click next. And on a few occasions when RHO has played an unexpected card fast, I click without meaning to. I do see the need to change plans, but the hand is faster than the eye so to speak, in an involuntary way.

 

I agree that some would insist otherwise and punish me. And perhaps justifiably so.

 

But it is indeed a misclick.

 

And to allow an UNDO surely restores equity in a friendly way. The game is more about bidding and play skills, not being "too slow to realize RHO did something unexpected" and 2 seconds late let momentum make the wrong click. eh?

[blackshoe]

f2f bridge. You lead a low card towards AQ in dummy, planning to finesse. LHO plays the king, you call for the queen. Then you say "oh, *****" and call for the ace.

 

Guess what. You don't get an "undo" here. Nor should you online.

[PassedOut]

f2f bridge. You lead a low card towards AQ in dummy, planning to finesse. LHO plays the king, you call for the queen. Then you say "oh, *****" and call for the ace.

 

Guess what. You don't get an "undo" here. Nor should you online.

Reminds me of something that happened when I was teaching a college girlfriend to play. She actually saw her LHO play the king, shrugged, and played the queen anyway.

 

After the round I asked her about it and she said, "You TOLD me to lead up to the ace-queen and play the queen!" After that I got a lot more careful with my explanations.

[jillybean]

You make a good point (or whine.)

 

And I understand it.

 

But to be honest, with some dexterity problems in an overall fast-paced clicking environment using touchpad...

 

...I usually immediately hover over the card I plan to click next. And on a few occasions when RHO has played an unexpected card fast, I click without meaning to. I do see the need to change plans, but the hand is faster than the eye so to speak, in an involuntary way.

 

I agree that some would insist otherwise and punish me. And perhaps justifiably so.

 

But it is indeed a misclick.

 

And to allow an UNDO surely restores equity in a friendly way. The game is more about bidding and play skills, not being "too slow to realize RHO did something unexpected" and 2 seconds late let momentum make the wrong click. eh?

Easy fix, dont touch the mouse until it is your turn to play, dont play in tournaments that dont allow time to think. A card clicked is a card played.

[gwnn]

It might be a misclick in the sense that he intended to play the ♠2 but when he saw the ♠J and he wanted to move his mouse to the left, clicked by accident.

 

That said, it is not very likely.

[JoAnneM]

Are there any good directors? Or do I just hear about the bad ones. So far I have just played with robots.

[jillybean]

I ruffed in front of declarer with the singleton jack of trumps, declarer ruffed with the 2, no doubt not realising it was possible for a suit to break anything other than 3-3. 

This is not a misclick!

 

This is inattention, getting too far ahead of yourself, playing too fast, call it what you like but it is not a mechanical error.

 

I often do this type of thing at the club, I don't get an undo there, nor should we online.

[billw55]

it was a goulash tournament with undos for misclicks

When you enter a joke event, sometimes the joke is on you.

[hotShot]

It might be a misclick in the sense that he intended to play the ♠2 but when he saw the ♠J and he wanted to move his mouse to the left, clicked by accident.

 

That said, it is not very likely.

Are you very used to your touchpad?

 

Because if you put your finger on it to move the mouse a little bit to hard, it is a click.....

[jkdood]

... your touchpad?

 

Because if you put your finger on it to move the mouse a little bit to hard, it is a click.....

Exactly!

 

And if you include the arthritis and carpal tunnel syndrome, it's not always that easy.

 

This does not seem to me to be remarkably different than the laws which talk about changes which "may be corrected only if done so without pause or thought, all in one breath"

 

The mechanical PC touchpad equivalent in a situation where it is clear what the desired play is, should govern these "benefit of the doubt situations".

 

Being a harsh nitpicker in these situations, which generally gives an unearned bonus to the so-called non-offensing side, is NOT GOOD for online bridge. But have it your way and see what the effects are.

[pooltuna]

It might be a misclick in the sense that he intended to play the ♠2 but when he saw the ♠J and he wanted to move his mouse to the left, clicked by accident.

 

That said, it is not very likely.

declarer was rewarded for not claiming :)

[Oof Arted]

f2f bridge. You lead a low card towards AQ in dummy, planning to finesse. LHO plays the king, you call for the queen. Then you say "oh, *****" and call for the ace.

 

Guess what. You don't get an "undo" here. Nor should you online.

;)

 

agree with ed

 

:)

[jillybean]

If the touch pad is causing misclicks perhaps you could attach a mouse.

[jmcw]

You will never know what happened with declarer's mouse/pad. The point is that undo is allowed and was correctly granted.

Your problem is that you are trying to get a trick which you are not entitled to.

Trying to win at any cost no matter how undeserving makes me sick. Playing the game as a Gentleman or Lady is far more important that whining over a trick you clearly did not deserve to win.

[jkdood]

If the touch pad is causing misclicks perhaps you could attach a mouse.

I suggest being more sensitive to seniors with limited budgets and aging laptops that turn to online bridge more and more.

 

If/when they say, in a situation where the desired touchpad selection is clear from the plays or calls, that they "intended to make a different call but misclicked", that they get the benefit of the doubt if done timely.

[jillybean]

You will never know what happened with declarer's mouse/pad. The point is that undo is allowed and was correctly granted.

Your problem is that you are trying to get a trick which you are not entitled to.

Trying to win at any cost no matter how undeserving makes me sick. Playing the game as a Gentleman or Lady is far more important that whining over a trick you clearly did not deserve to win.

...

 

I'd much rather play bridge than play nice :)

[jkdood]

...

 

I'd much rather play bridge than play nice :)

"trying to get a trick which you are not entitled to" is not an admirable way of playing bridge!

[jillybean]

This is where we differ , I believe asking for an undo when you realise you could have won the trick is not an admirable way of playing bridge. This is an exact game, you've got to be on 100% of the time.

 

OTOH, I you want to play a game where people can take back a card played when they realise they could have won the trick, thats fine and you will have a lot of supporters.

[jkdood]

The laws/rules language about things that "may be corrected only if done so without pause or thought, all in one breath" surely recognizes that not everyone's brain/eye/hand/voice coordination is 100% in sync or perfect...

 

...with disabled, seniors, bidding boxes, touchpads, etc; in the mix, it's surely less than a 100% state of affairs.

 

The "intention" when leading towards the AQ is to play the Q unless the K shows. If a fast or even unexpected K results in a timely correction via a (rules-allowed or tournament-allowed) claim of mis-speak or mis-click, insisting otherwise as an opp deserves some adjectives not allowed in this forum.

 

On a hopefully friendlier helpful note, maye try to think of it as a typo. We know the word we want to communicate. We have an idea of it's spelling that when executed, will be our final choice or corrected if we type too fast or it doesn't somehow come out or look right. Would you deny someone the opportunity to correct the typo because they weren't 100% "on"?

[peachy]

This is where we differ , I believe asking for an undo when you realise you could have won the trick is not an admirable way of playing bridge. This is an exact game, you've got to be on 100% of the time.

 

OTOH, I you want to play a game where people can take back a card played when they realise they could have won the trick, thats fine and you will have a lot of supporters.

I admit I agree with jillybean. Bridge is a game where mistakes typically cost and those who make fewest of them usually do well. If it is practice game or just for fun, fine, undo all we want (and I allow undo if I am host). But with any sort of stakes, even if it is just for monsterpoints, live with our mistakes whether live bridge or online.

[jkdood]

Sounds like some of ya are just eagerly waiting for an opp to have a heart attack in the middle of the game and expose his/her whole hand to you. What an easy way to win a trick or two extra!!!

[JoAnneM]

There are lots of venues for playing bridge online and I think that someone who has trouble with the mouse/touchpad should maybe stick to open tables where nothing is at stake and they can set their own parameters.

 

I had a longtime partner, now deceased, on Okbridge who was very arthritic and slow. We knew better than to enter tournaments, which would only be frustrating for him in terms of time allowed and undo's. But, we enjoyed several years of fun bridge at our own open table allowing undo's and slow play - we always had a full table.

 

Of course this has nothing to do with the opening post, where it sounds to me like the director probably didn't even consider the situation, just granted the undo.

[jkdood]

Yeah, keep those annoying slow arthritic seniors out of the BBO Free Tournaments! Now we are talking!