Pass?

[Little Kid]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=sk9854hj76daqj7ca]133|100|Scoring: IMP

(Pass)- 1♠ - (Pass) - 2♠

(Pass)-Pass-(2NT*)-Pass

 (3♦) -  ?

 

*2NT: minors

[/hv]

 

What do you bid:

a ) strong opponents in a big tournament

b ) randoms on BBO

[rogerclee]

I would always double. Also I would never pass 2S, but it seems to have worked out pretty well!

[jdonn]

Sorry I was about to answer this problem but then I accidentally wet my pants.

[Free]

Sorry I was about to answer this problem but then I accidentally wet my pants.

Rofl! :D

 

Dbl is pretty obvious imo, whatever opps I have.

[neilkaz]

Sorry I was about to answer this problem but then I accidentally wet my pants.

Rofl! :lol:

 

Dbl is pretty obvious imo, whatever opps I have.

We agree.

[jamegumb]

Sorry I was about to answer this problem but then I accidentally wet my pants.

Rofl! :lol:

 

Dbl is pretty obvious imo, whatever opps I have.

We agree.

Right. What's the story? Did double turn out poorly?

[gszeszycki]

this may turn out to be the best trap pass in history of bridge. I bring out thors hammer for this one and send a message to both opps you're going down. As an

aside I would have hazarded a 3h help suit game try vs pass after the 2s bid.

[gnasher]

Are all the doublers assuming that 2♠ is constructive?

 

If 2♠ is the only way to raise, I don't think incontinence is called for. A single raise doesn't promise an ace, or a club honour.

 

Partner could have doubled 2NT to show a maximum, so his upper limit is about 7. He appears to have a singleton diamond, so he doesn't need much in high cards for his raise. If he has something like Qxx Kxxx x xxxxx, 3♦ may well make, and that's not the worst he could have.

 

There's also the question of what to lead. A spade is our best chance to get a decent penalty, because if we can force dummy the hand may fall apart, but it also risks lettting it through if the opponents have AQ between them.

 

I think it's probaby going one down, but making is as likely as down two, so I'd pass.

[rogerclee]

Are all the doublers assuming that 2♠ is constructive?

 

If 2♠ is the only way to raise, I don't think incontinence is called for.  A single raise doesn't promise an ace, or a club honour.

 

Partner could have doubled 2NT to show a maximum, so his upper limit is about 7.  He appears to have a singleton diamond, so he doesn't need much in high cards for his raise.  If he has something like Qxx Kxxx x xxxxx, 3♦ may well make, and that's not the worst he could have.

 

There's also the question of what to lead.  A spade is our best chance to get a decent penalty, because if we can force dummy the hand may fall apart, but it also risks lettting it through if the opponents have AQ between them.

 

I think it's probaby going one down, but making is as likely as down two, so I'd pass.

I think you are going to lose some equity from the times 3D is down but partner balances 3S and it's down. However given how absurdly good our hand is I guess it's not a whole lot.

 

Also I like to play the double as just warning off partner from bidding 3M because you have good defense, not showing a particular strength of hand. I considered this to be normal but maybe not.

[mikeh]

Are all the doublers assuming that 2♠ is constructive?

 

If 2♠ is the only way to raise, I don't think incontinence is called for.  A single raise doesn't promise an ace, or a club honour.

 

Partner could have doubled 2NT to show a maximum, so his upper limit is about 7.  He appears to have a singleton diamond, so he doesn't need much in high cards for his raise.  If he has something like Qxx Kxxx x xxxxx, 3♦ may well make, and that's not the worst he could have.

 

There's also the question of what to lead.  A spade is our best chance to get a decent penalty, because if we can force dummy the hand may fall apart, but it also risks lettting it through if the opponents have AQ between them.

 

I think it's probaby going one down, but making is as likely as down two, so I'd pass.

I think you are going to lose some equity from the times 3D is down but partner balances 3S and it's down. However given how absurdly good our hand is I guess it's not a whole lot.

 

Also I like to play the double as just warning off partner from bidding 3M because you have good defense, not showing a particular strength of hand. I considered this to be normal but maybe not.

Assuming partner doesn't sneer at the Law, he won't/shouldn't balance on this type of sequence without 4 trump, and it's damn hard to construct a lot of hands on which both 3♠ and 3♦ fail, so I'm not that worried about 'equity'.

 

What I am more worried about are, on the one hand, rejecting a chance to pick up a whack of imps thanks to an unwise or unlucky decision by LHO, and on the other, throwing away a whack of imps because I can't beat the damn contract!

 

I have probably averaged more undoubled undertricks per imp board played than just about anybody here...I am no stranger to +250, for example.

 

I am now trying to reduce that dubious statistic, so I double...but not because I am confident of a big number. I would think my expectation is they will take, averaged over a 100 hands, about 7.82871 tricks. More or less. Your experience may vary.

 

I lead a spade, since that is the closest to a good lead I can imagine.

 

Edit: I forgot he passed 2N so I gave an example where he could pull...now edited

[hanp]

Don't need 30 pages to double with this hand.

[jdonn]

Upper limit 7? Partner doesn't just automatically double with 8-9 and pass with 6-7 over 2NT.

[gnasher]

Upper limit 7? Partner doesn't just automatically double with 8-9 and pass with 6-7 over 2NT.

OK, so what does he do?

 

Edit: Also, I'm not quite sure why you mention the range 6-7. I was suggesting that with 8-9(10) he would double, and with 2-7 he would pass. I don't think many players would pass 1♠ with Qxx xxxx x xxxxx.

Edited August 21, 2010 by gnasher

[peachy]

In my methods, partner would have doubled 2NT with a balanced maximum 3-card raise or bid 3S with a 4-card raise and shortness. Also, in my methods, passing 2S does not look right.

 

But now I'm happy to Dbl. It gives partner the information that I do not want to bid 3S and I do not want him to bid 3S, and that I think they stepped on a cowpie.

 

Edit: It doesn't matter who the opponents are.

[Little Kid]

[hv=v=b&n=sjt32hqt4d9cq7653&w=sq7hk9dk652ckt842&e=sa6ha8532dt843cj9&s=sk9854hj76daqj7ca]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

[jdonn]

Upper limit 7? Partner doesn't just automatically double with 8-9 and pass with 6-7 over 2NT.

OK, so what does he do?

 

Edit: Also, I'm not quite sure why you mention the range 6-7. I was suggesting that with 8-9(10) he would double, and with 2-7 he would pass. I don't think many players would pass 1♠ with Qxx xxxx x xxxxx.

He doubles if he is interested in penalizing the opponents. Of course when he makes that judgment he is unaware that we hold the best hand for penalizing them we will hold all year.

 

Why stop at 2-7? Would he pass with Jxxxxx xx xx xxx? Or can we please return to reality?

[OleBerg]

I play the double much along the lines suggested by Gnasher. It sends the message to partner:

 

"If you are in doubt about whether to take further action, do it. It is highly likely my values will be usefull."

 

This need not include good defence against one or both minors. (But it will include decent all-round defence , as well as some offensive values.)

 

 

Anyway, if 2♠ is a classic european (5)6-9 raise, I still double. It is simply to likely that declarer will have to much "work" on his hand, even when partner is dead minimum.

 

I take my -670 with a shrug.

[peachy]

[hv=v=b&n=sjt32hqt4d9cq7653&w=sq7hk9dk652ckt842&e=sa6ha8532dt843cj9&s=sk9854hj76daqj7ca]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

Dbl was penalty. Some penalty doubles are pulled just like some takeout doubles are left in for penalty. This responder hand is a good candidate for pulling the penalty double. No defensive quick tricks, low HCP, 4-card support, singleton in their suit. Afterall, opener did pass 2S so he is marked with an ordinary opener, not a defensive powerhouse, not a 5-5, and not a game try (he would have made one if he had one, and I think he actually did have an invite), which means opener CANNOT have five tricks in his own hand. Had opener passed the 3D bid, this responder should still bid 3S.

[hanp]

I don't think two queens and a jack is too much to make a preemptive raise.

[gnasher]

I don't think two queens and a jack is too much to make a preemptive raise.

True, but J10x Q10xx x Q9xxx would, I assume, be a 2♠ bid, followed by a pass, followed by another pass.

 

Anyway, if 2♠ is a classic european (5)6-9 raise

Do you actually know anyone, in Europe or elsewhere, for whom the lower limit of such a raise is "(5)6" when it contains a singleton?

[gnasher]

Why stop at 2-7? Would he pass with Jxxxxx xx xx xxx? Or can we please return to reality?

In your reality, what's is partner's minimum when he is 3415?

[hanp]

I don't think two queens and a jack is too much to make a preemptive raise.

True, but J10x Q10xx x Q9xxx would, I assume, be a 2♠ bid, followed by a pass, followed by another pass.

Two queens and a jack is not too much to bid 1NT for me so you assumed incorrectly. Maybe I missed the part where it was said that the system is standard European, a system I have not heard about before. I am European though, and I live in Europe, and I bid 1NT with that hand.

 

Just to clarify, if I gave you the impression that I think it is impossible to construct a hand where 3DX makes, I did not mean to do so. I think it is indeed possible that 3DX makes, and I still think it is a clear double. Shocking!

[jdonn]

Why stop at 2-7? Would he pass with Jxxxxx xx xx xxx? Or can we please return to reality?

In your reality, what's is partner's minimum when he is 3415?

In my reality I don't care if he doesn't go set 100% of the time with his worst hand possible. Also in my reality his minimum can include a club spot or two. What I want to find out about your reality is why you think down 2 (or 3 or 4) is so unlikely holding this hand knowing partner is likely to have 5 clubs.

[gnasher]

Two queens and a jack is not too much to bid 1NT for me so you assumed incorrectly. Maybe I missed the part where it was said that the system is standard European, a system I have not heard about before. I am European though, and I live in Europe, and I bid 1NT with that hand.

If weak raises bid 1NT, of course it's a double. I don't think anyone in this thread has argued otherwise.

[gnasher]

In my reality I don't care if he doesn't go set 100% of the time with his worst hand possible.

The first example I gave was Qxx Kxxx x xxxxx. Are you saying that this is his worst possible hand, or that opposite this hand you do expect to beat it most of the time? (I'll let you off the "100%", which I assume was hyperbole.)

 

Also in my reality his minimum can include a club spot or two.

Yes, that would be nice. On the other hand, LHO is vulnerable and hs diamonds are pretty poor, so it wouldn't be a shock to find him with good clubs.

 

What I want to find out about your reality is why you think down 2 (or 3 or 4) is so unlikely holding this hand knowing partner is likely to have 5 clubs.

I don't know about "so unlikely". I said that I thought down two was as likely as making, and I gave reasons for that belief, as well as an example.

 

So far your comments, although both entertainingly graphic and characteristically forthright, have been quite low on descriptions or examples of the sort of layout you're hoping for. Maybe you should tell me why you expect down 2 or 3?