Limitations Of Ordinary Blackwood

[gurgistan]

[hv=d=s&v=b&s=sa2hak95dt54cak52]133|100|Scoring: IMP

Partner only plays ordinary Blackwood. This is my second hand with him.

 

The auction is uncontested and goes:

 

Partner is West and bids 1♠. I bid 2♣. Partner bids 2♠. I bid 3♥. Partner bids 3N. I bid 4N. Partner bids 5♦. I bid 5N. Partner bids 6♥. I bid 6♠.

All pass.

 

I have nowhere to go have I after he shows 2 kings. I know we have 4 Aces and 4 Kings but there is nowhere to go but 6♠ is there? Anyone disagree?

 

I am also dissuaded from put us in 7♠ by his 3N? What on earth could that be? I think he did not understand my 3♥ control bid and that is why I instigated Blackwood. I relied on him being bad enough to think any 4N as Blackwood. And he did.

 

This hand exemplifies why we use 1430/3014. [/hv]

[kenrexford]

If partner is sitting there with one Ace and shows it, and you ask for Kings, and he has two Kings PLUS the spade Queen, then his answer is NOT 6♥ -- it is 7♠.

[TylerE]

That said... if you don't know what to do holding all aces and all kings BLACKWOOD IS NOT YOUR BID.

[gurgistan]

That said... if you don't know what to do holding all aces and all kings BLACKWOOD IS NOT YOUR BID.

I don't see how I could have done any different.

 

kenrexford pointed out what should have occurred.

[TylerE]

Cue or something. Basically what I'm saying is, if after knowing partners aces and kings you STILL don't know where you belong, you should use something besides blackwood. That said on the given auction, I think you have to bid 7 once you're known to hold everything. If it turns out to hinge on finding the trump queen.... too bad. If you only bid 100% grands you're not bidding enough grands.

 

Also, learn RKC....seriously.

[matmat]

is 4N even blackwood?

[TylerE]

It shouldn't be.

[jjbrr]

is 4N even blackwood?

shouldn't be.

 

edit: slow pony is slowwwwwww

[Stephen Tu]

4nt should not be blackwood. Bad players use 4nt as always blackwood though. I do think 4nt inv is the right call. 3 hearts isn't a cue-bid necessarily, it's still groping for strain at that point.

 

I think bidding 7 is LOL. Partner hasn't shown anything more than kJxxxx xx AKx Jx, where you need spades to behave even to just make 6. He doesn't even have to have 6 spades, he could have say KQJxx xx AKx Jxx and bid this way.

 

If he did actually have something like KQJxxx xx AKx Qx, he should have jumped to 7. I don't agree with Ken that opener should jump to 7 holding just SKQ, DAK.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

3H is certainly not a control bid, it showes values / a stopper for NT, p found a diamond stopper, he bids NT.

4NT over 3NT is certainly quantitative, but it is not uncommon to show Aces, if

one accepts the invitation, of course in this scenario 5NT would be a sign of bid.

 

On a general note - if this is your 2nd hand with a new p, and you did not have

lengthy discussion beforehand, be happy to reach a small slam, and ... just

because you believe that a bid has to mean this and that, this may not be the

case - see my comments regarding the meaning of 3H.

 

I would also suggest, that you change your attitude (given that this was the 2nd

hand)

 

"I relied on him being bad enough to think ..."

 

otherwise you wobnt be able to form a successful partnership.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: It is not even clear, that p has a 6 card spade suit, this depends a little bit

on the meaning of the 2NT bid over your 2C response, some play that 2NT in

this seq. showes 15-17.

[gurgistan]

3H is certainly not a control bid, it showes values / a stopper for NT, p found a diamond stopper, he bids NT.

This as it turns out is exactly how partner saw it. My bad.

 

3♥ is not a control bid because we have not explicitly agreed a suit.

 

So, how do I proceed to slam?

 

Minor correction: you talk about Partner bidding 2N over my 2♣ but he actually rebid his suit.

 

Many thanks for your excellent post.

[gurgistan]

Also, learn RKC....seriously.

I play 1430 so I can get the Queen Ask in.

 

It was Partner who played Ordinary Blackwood.

[kenrexford]

I don't agree with Ken that opener should jump to 7 holding just SKQ, DAK.

What -- do you think that Responder should look for a grand missing the spade Queen and expect to find it on his own? If Responder needs more than two Kings and the spade Queen, why is he asking for Kings?

[P_Marlowe]

3H is certainly not a control bid, it showes values / a stopper for NT, p found a diamond stopper, he bids NT.

This as it turns out is exactly how partner saw it. My bad.

 

3♥ is not a control bid because we have not explicitly agreed a suit.

 

So, how do I proceed to slam?

 

The quantitative 4NT bid was fine.

 

Minor correction: you talk about Partner bidding 2N over my 2♣ but he actually

rebid his suit.

 

Many thanks for your excellent post.

 

Reading your post, I interpreted your claim "3H = control bid", that you assumed,

that 2S showed a 6 carder.

And this assumption is not necessarily correct, lots of peoble play this, but the

style is not universal.

The question is, what to bid with bal. 12-14 hands, and if 2NT promises a stopper

in the unbid suits or not. Some bid 2S with this hand, some bid 2NT.

See Stehphen Tu's previous post, where he gives an example hand.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[peachy]

Unless you had agreed that "every 4NT is Blackwood", the 4NT in your auction is a passable quantitative invitation to slam. It was lucky that opener had enough to accept.

 

You should bid 7S, what are you worried about? If you had something to worry about, like the three little diamond losers, then you should not have used a Blackwood sequence (if 4NT really was agreed as Blackwood).