A Weak Two With A Void

[gurgistan]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=st85hkqt864dqj64c]133|100|Scoring: IMP

I wish to open 2♥. We are not vulnerable. I have no four-card major outside the suit I wish to pre-empt in. I am first to act and therefore twice as likely to interfere with the bidding intentions of my opponents than partner. I open 2♥.

 

The auction is uncontested. Partner responds 3♥ and it suddenly occurs to me that I should upgrade to 4♥ and I do.

 

Partner is much suprised. As he should be. I thought my rebid a case of thinking outside the box.

 

What do people make of the rebid?

 

Also, more importantly, I am aware that a weak two should not be bid with a void but I am not aware of the reason for this. What is the reason?[/hv]

[blackshoe]

It makes it harder for partner to evaluate his hand if you might have a void, since his values (KQx, say) opposite that void should be downgraded. (I was going to say "will be useless" but perhaps that's an overbid).

[bill1157]

very good thinking. The rule that u can't open a weak 2 with a void is stupid, as is the one that says not to with a side 4 card suit. Also, I like to play a raise to 3 as invitational, I don't like the common treatment of raising to 3 with a singleton trump or a small doubleton which is all the rage in my club.

 

Bill

[JLOGIC]

I would bid the same way as you but I would not expect any sympathy if it doesn't work lol

[nigel_k]

There is no rule that says you can't open a weak two with a void but the void does make it hard for partner to know whether his cards are useful. If you're not going to let partner make a decision anyway you are better off passing or opening 1♥ so you have a chance to find out if partner has clubs. In any case 2♥ is simply an underbid and 3♥ would be better. If you bid 4♥ because you realized it was wrong to open 2♥ in the first place then that's fine but obviously you wouldn't do it next time.

 

The kind of hand that would bid again after preeempting is normally one that has been improved by the bidding, e.g. if you had excellent shape but bad trumps your hand would improve a lot when partner raises. When you have good trumps, as here, the raise doesn't really improve your hand so 4♥ is just a stab in the dark.

[aguahombre]

I, too, would have opened 2H with that. But, a raise to 3 by partner is not invitational to 4. She does it almost every time she can add 6+3 in the suit I opened. No way am I going to then bid 4, however lucky it might have turned out.

 

It would be more detrimental to partnership over the long run than the gain on one rare occurrence. I might implant fear of making competitive raises in other situations as well.

[Cascade]

I don't see the problem with opening a weak two with a void.

 

Of course an undisclosed void in our hand will make it hard for partner and sometimes ourselves to judge later in the auction but this is true whether we open or not. Yes you might have more or different information later that might turn out to be helpful but that seems to me to just be random - we can't tell now whether the information we will get later will be more helpful to us than the information that we can give to partner now about about six-card major.

 

As to whether this hand meets the range criteria for 2♥ that is a matter for partnership discussion and style.

 

For me it is a very good maximum 2♥.

 

We have played 3♥ as a constructive raise for a while and I quite like that style rather than purely pre-emptive. However we play quite wide ranging weak twos so its nice to be able to have a strong artificial response and a slightly weaker invite. In the recent past we have had a couple of really good results playing this way so maybe my glasses are rose tinted.

[Mbodell]

A normal weak 2 for me is an 8 LTC hand. This hand is 6 LTC. I don't mind a 2♥ opening, or a 3♥ opening, or a 1♥ opening, or a pass - it depends on your agreed style. I also don't think it is crazy to raise after preemting. Partner should have something for raising, and you have more offense than expected. IMPs reward game bidding, so go for it.

[Siegmund]

If you feel you need to bid one more after partner responds to your preempt ... usually means you needed to bid one more the first time around.

[zenko]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=st85hkqt864dqj64c]133|100|Scoring: IMP

I wish to open 2♥. We are not vulnerable. I have no four-card major outside the suit I wish to pre-empt in. I am first to act and therefore twice as likely to interfere with the bidding intentions of my opponents than partner. I open 2♥.

 

The auction is uncontested. Partner responds 3♥ and it suddenly occurs to me that I should upgrade to 4♥ and I do.

 

Partner is much suprised. As he should be. I thought my rebid a case of thinking outside the box.

 

What do people make of the rebid?

 

Also, more importantly, I am aware that a weak two should not be bid with a void but I am not aware of the reason for this. What is the reason?[/hv]

Your are certainly allowed to violate your agreements, as long as you are aware of potential issues (say partner bringing something like xxxx, xxx, xxxx, AK). IMO, as a "young" player it is beneficial to play freewheeling style, and then gradually cut-of what is proven not to work, if you play too tight early you never really get over it.

 

Having said that , those who chronically play "solo" bridge are probably better off sticking to poker or chess, which would fit their personality much better

[Dirk Kuijt]

FWIW, as I play the outside void is fine. As for whether to bid 4♥, it depends on something that you hinted at, but didn't specify, that is, what does partner's 3♥ mean? If this is invitational, then you have an evaluation problem, and 4♥ seems right to me, even if it goes down because partner has too much stuff in clubs. If 3♥ is a further preempt, then you pass without looking at your hand. To violate an agreement (such as 3♥ is a further preempt) by bidding 4♥ means that you found another ace that you overlooked the first time; this hand is not so unusual, as I play it, to violate a partnership understanding.

[peachy]

Fine auction, seriously. However, if 4H didn't make, the fault is 100% yours. The reason void is no good is that partner does not expect it. Hard rules are preferred by some and not by others. If you want to keep a nice partner, do what he prefers, apologize if you stepped over the line, and don't do it again.

[CSGibson]

I think that the reason I might be hesitant to open this hand 2♥ with a void is that the hand will play wonderfully with any of 3 suits trump, and preempting a weak 2 or 3 level bid usually indicates a single-suited hand. I'm not saying that I wouldn't preempt; I probably would, actually. It's just that the downside is the increased risk that you are preempting your side out of your best contract (for example, it does not take much to imagine 6 diamonds on...)

 

I would never raise to 4♥ on your hand playing matchpoints, though, since my partner's action is purely continuing the preempt. My partner has tools to ask about my potential shortness and hand quality, and did not use them, so bidding 4♥ would be undisciplined and anti-partnership under our agreements. Playing imps it is much more tempting - partner rates to have a decent hand since opps are not getting into the auction when they have shortness in our suit.

[neilkaz]

I think that the reason I might be hesitant to open this hand 2♥ with a void is that the hand will play wonderfully with any of 3 suits trump, and preempting a weak 2 or 3 level bid usually indicates a single-suited hand. I'm not saying that I wouldn't preempt; I probably would, actually. It's just that the downside is the increased risk that you are preempting your side out of your best contract (for example, it does not take much to imagine 6 diamonds on...)

 

I would never raise to 4♥ on your hand playing matchpoints, though, since my partner's action is purely continuing the preempt. My partner has tools to ask about my potential shortness and hand quality, and did not use them, so bidding 4♥ would be undisciplined and anti-partnership under our agreements. Playing imps it is much more tempting - partner rates to have a decent hand since opps are not getting into the auction when they have shortness in our suit.

Your fine post echos my thoughts exactly.

[cherdanno]

I would have opened 3♥.

[Flame]

open 3H which show the true nature and offensive power of this hand and avoid this problem.