Bidding w/ 1444

[bd71]

A few questions about or related to 1444 (singleton spade) hands:

 

1. I routinely open these 1D, planning a 2C bid over 1S response. Is this best, and are there good reasons at times to deviate from this?

 

2. Would you ever rebid 1N with any 4441 hand (i.e. singleton spade, heart, or diamond...can't really happen w/ singleton club I don't believe)? If so, under what circumstances?

 

3. After sequence of 1D-1S-2C, is it correct that responder shouldn't expect any more than 44 in the minors from opener? A pickup partner yesterday told me he expected 55 for this sequence.

[helene_t]

1. This is fine although I personally prefer a 1NT rebid if the values are appropriate. With 15-17 points there isn't really an alternative to the 2♣ rebid.

 

2. With a singleton clubs and values for a notrump rebid I would rebid 2NT after a 2♣ response unless having some other agreement. Also with a singleton spades although this is less clear.

 

3. Responder should certainly not assume 5-5. 5-4 is very normal and maybe 4-5 also if your style is to open 1♦ with that shape. 4-4 is indeed possible but responder can't really cater to it. With some 6-9 points and a 5422 shape he can only bid 2♦ (maybe 2♠ with spades like KQJT8), hoping opener has 5 or 6 diamonds.

[jukmoi]

We bid with 12-14hcp 1♣ - 1♠ - 1NT and with 15-17 1♦ - 1♠ - 2♣ or open 1NT with ♠ honour.

[vuroth]

My 0.02, fwiw

 

1. That's what I do. Not sure I can picture a hand where I'd deviate from that.

 

2. No, I never would. Others would and do, but I hate 1NT with that shape.

 

3. 44 is all I would expect. Would pickup partner really rebid diamonds with 0454 shape?

[rogerclee]

Just because it is somewhat normal to open 1D and rebid 2C with 1444 does not mean that 2C is expected to be 4-4 or better. There is only one shape with 44 minors that opens 1D and rebids 2C and it is not always the case that the player will choose to do this. Meanwhile 2254, 1354, 0454, 0364, etc all open 1D and rebid 2C 100% of the time, and all of these shapes are 5+D and 4+C. It is definitely wrong to "expect" 4-4, that is a rare anomaly and should not be catered to.

[pooltuna]

3) you picked him up...drop him. I tell partners not to correct to 2♦ with 33 in minors and a minimum hand whenever I open 1♦ and rebid 2♣

[mikeh]

3) you picked him up...drop him. I tell partners not to correct to 2♦ with 33 in  minors and a minimum hand whenever I open 1♦ and rebid 2♣

That is, frankly, silly advice.

 

Even if you are one of the 1D on 4=5 school, which most North Americans are not, I very much doubt that you play a canape system, so that I am willing to bet you open 1♦ and rebid 2♣ on 5=4, many if not most 6=4, all 6=5 hands and so on. IOW, when you rebid 2♣ you are more likely to have diamonds longer than clubs than the other way around.

[awm]

I normally rebid 1nt on these when minimum. The big advantage is finding all my heart fits -- one can lose 4-4 or even 5-4 hearts easily after the club rebid unless partner has quite a good hand. Other advantages: sometimes 1nt is the best partial (like partner 4333 or 5(332)); I expect partner to revert to diamonds after the 2♣ rebid even sometimes with 2-3 or 3-4 minors since I could have up to a bad 18 for this and it helps to keep the auction live; I like partner to be able to invite with 3♦ on 3-card support over the club rebid (always a real fit except the 1444).

 

The main disadvantage would be if I expected partner to rebid 2♠ over 1nt often on a five-card suit. However this is not really part of my preferred style (and I often raise to 2♠ on 3-card support, so I rarely miss a 5-3 fit this way).

[bluecalm]

I think that if you play 2♥/2♠ responses like Meckwell (5♠-4+♥ below invite/invite) then rebidding 2♣ is much better.

If you don't play those responses then rebidding 1NT is better because costs of losing ♥ suit are too great.

Rebidding 1NT though requires many adjustments to your overall style. Like awm said you need to raise with 3 card support often and don't rebid 2♠ with only 5 of them.

I don't like either personally.

[pooltuna]

3) you picked him up...drop him. I tell partners not to correct to 2♦ with 33 in  minors and a minimum hand whenever I open 1♦ and rebid 2♣

That is, frankly, silly advice.

 

Even if you are one of the 1D on 4=5 school, which most North Americans are not, I very much doubt that you play a canape system, so that I am willing to bet you open 1♦ and rebid 2♣ on 5=4, many if not most 6=4, all 6=5 hands and so on. IOW, when you rebid 2♣ you are more likely to have diamonds longer than clubs than the other way around.

tell it to Sidney Lazard the next time you see him

[mikeh]

3) you picked him up...drop him. I tell partners not to correct to 2♦ with 33 in  minors and a minimum hand whenever I open 1♦ and rebid 2♣

That is, frankly, silly advice.

 

Even if you are one of the 1D on 4=5 school, which most North Americans are not, I very much doubt that you play a canape system, so that I am willing to bet you open 1♦ and rebid 2♣ on 5=4, many if not most 6=4, all 6=5 hands and so on. IOW, when you rebid 2♣ you are more likely to have diamonds longer than clubs than the other way around.

tell it to Sidney Lazard the next time you see him

When you are as good as Sidney Lazard, you can give your partners bad advice and still be respected. When you aren't, you can't.

[pooltuna]

3) you picked him up...drop him. I tell partners not to correct to 2♦ with 33 in  minors and a minimum hand whenever I open 1♦ and rebid 2♣

That is, frankly, silly advice.

 

Even if you are one of the 1D on 4=5 school, which most North Americans are not, I very much doubt that you play a canape system, so that I am willing to bet you open 1♦ and rebid 2♣ on 5=4, many if not most 6=4, all 6=5 hands and so on. IOW, when you rebid 2♣ you are more likely to have diamonds longer than clubs than the other way around.

tell it to Sidney Lazard the next time you see him

When you are as good as Sidney Lazard, you can give your partners bad advice and still be respected. When you aren't, you can't.

where do you think I got it? And considering it bad advice is just your opinion :)

[Rodney26]

I try to bid where I live, which includes 1H openers when the 4 hearts are strong and 1NT rebids when the hand is NTish and the spade is an honor. I take some comfort in the fact that 1444 hands tend to be hard for the entire field, and that I think your average player in an average field overbids them.

 

I also will pass a lot of 1444 12 counts where I feel like my rebid or opening is misdescriptive. Q KJ52 Q876 AT74 is a routine pass.

[jdonn]

Even though I knew this already, all I would have been able to deduce from the fact Sidney Lazard gave that advice is he is very very old.