Agree or disagree?

[rduran1216]

Yeah give partner x xxxx AQJT8 xxx and you will be glad you passed a takeout double with xx of the suit!

the hands I put for partner are very reasonable.

 

giving S

 

Kx

Kx

AQ10xxx

Qxx

 

or

 

x

Kxx

AKQxxx

Jxx

 

or

 

Jxx

Axx

KQJxx

Kx

 

or

 

x

Kx

AQJxxx

QJxx

 

and we're gonna set 2D at these colors.

 

North's hand turned out to be about as good as it could, as with a true neg x, my partner would have the A of hearts, or K of spades or both, now 500 is good.

[matmat]

Was there a point to this thread?

 

Passing is horrendous.  There is no other way of putting it.

How?

 

give partner

 

x

Axxx

Jxx

Kxxxx

 

or

 

Kx

Kxxx

Qxx

Qxxx

 

or

 

x

10xxxx

Kxx

KQxx

 

or

 

Jx

AKxx

xxx

Kxxx

 

or

 

ok here's a bad hand partner could make a dbl with

 

xx

Kxxxx

Jxx

QJx

 

 

 

at these colors putting up 500 or 200 will probably be good, and with the spade lead coming I'm gonna have options to find the right defense.

what do all of these hands have in common?

[jdonn]

Wow how disingenuous to say "north's hand turned out about as good as it could", he had a singleton diamond and Kxx of spades!

[rduran1216]

Wow how disingenuous to say "north's hand turned out about as good as it could", he had a singleton diamond and Kxx of spades!

He also had AK of hearts.

 

I think there are a significan portion of hands where pass here is right. Maybe not the absolute best % play, but with S likely to have the K of hearts I can't see, with a likelihood my partner has at least one diamond trick coming, with RHO's waiting that felt like a desire to xx and run.

[jjbrr]

lol?

..

[cherdanno]

Passing is extremely bad.

Of course, if North is really so clueless to give away he has a singleton diamond then it may be right. But passing with Norths' hand is really really obvious, so if your table feel is good enough to work out the difference between this pass, and a pass where he considered raising, or a decent hand with a doubleton, then your table feel must be so great that I am sure you constantly win the pairs events you enter.

[jdonn]

Congratulations on reading the soul of your rho, in that case why did you ask for confirmation from us about whether pass was unspeakable or not?

[mikeh]

Late to the thread and arguably guilty of 'piling on', but to the OP...did you post this to show what a genius you are or to try to learn something?

 

If the former, sorry...I think it is unanimous that passing the double is one of the worst calls posted on this forum in a long time. It is partnership-destroying action.

 

If the latter...why all the replies trying to justify a stupid call?

 

In any given competitive auction it will usually be possible to construct a variety of hands that would justify an unusual position. So what?

 

Many people buy lottery tickets, even tho, statistically, doing so is equivalent to setting fire to most of the (paper) money you spend on tickets. We do so because we can construct layouts on which our ticket wins, and we lack the intuitive ability (well, most of us do, including me) to appreciate just how improbable it is that we will win.

 

In a similar vein, if we start thinking, at the table, about hands that will justify an action we are already thinking of taking, we will mislead ourselves into thinking that such hands are common.

 

Why couldn't partner hold Kx K10xxx xx Jxxx...and have declarer with xx Axx AKJxxx Kx and dummy with the Qxx in diamonds? An easy overtrick on any defence.

 

I won't go on...but it is as easy for me to create losing layouts as it is for you to create winning ones.....I'd go further....since in my view there are a lot more losing layouts than winning ones, it would be easier for me than for you.

 

As for reading the table action, it makes me laugh. To infer that North was worried about a misfit is flat out silly. Maybe N was thinking about raising! Or redoubling! Unless you are a mind-reader, your 'reading' of the table action was as compromised by confirmation bias as is your ability to construct typical hands.

[rduran1216]

i would be curious about the actual percentage of hands where you will get 2/500 versus the times its gonna be wrapped around your neck. Until then its just speculation, and thats with throwing out the context clues at the table.

[rduran1216]

Congratulations on reading the soul of your rho, in that case why did you ask for confirmation from us about whether pass was unspeakable or not?

:lol:

 

just sharing a hand from the previous day, but this isn't the first time I've found success in a pass with a spot like this, only at these colors would it even be considered, and yes I can get a fat zero perhaps a majority of the time, but feelings about hands shouldn't be ignored.

[mikeh]

i would be curious about the actual percentage of hands where you will get 2/500 versus the times its gonna be wrapped around your neck.  Until then its just speculation, and thats with throwing out the context clues at the table.

you seem to be falling into a very familiar pattern...one I think most of us fall victim to at some point...you made a bad call, got a lucky result, have convinced yourself that you are a genius and can't accept that, to the posters on this forum, you made a terrible, terrible call.

 

There is no point in arguing with someone caught in this mindset...the correctness of your position is an article of faith with you right now....it's like debating a young earth creationist on evolution :lol:

[Phil]

Hi welcome to the forums (sort of).

 

Occasionally we get a newer player (new to here anyway) that posts a hand that essentially seeks justification. They know that it is unusual, and it might or might not contain a kernel of truth.

 

Then the ritual hazing begins....

 

Re: passing 2♣ x'd. There is no way that you can put RHO on a misfit and partner on a stack. Maybe (s)he has an 8 count with a doubleton club picture? Maybe Hx of clubs with a spade stop? Maybe RHO is a weak player that doesn't know they are allowed to raise clubs on a 7 count and support. Maybe none of this is true, but LHO has a really good overcall and wraps it, or we get 200 and 4♠ makes.

 

If I owned my LHO lock, stock and barrel, and I needed a swing, and someone had keyed my car that afternoon and I was in a pissy mood, then I might pass. But I haven't taken a position like this in years, and don't feel like my game is worse for it.

 

Clee gave some good reasons why a lot of your reasoning is faulty. You would be doing well if you listened to Clee.

[gwnn]

Nobody agrees with your pass, no matter how much you argue for it, it is unspeakably absurd to pass out a 2-level takeout double with a good 6 card major and absolutely nothing in trumps, you need to keep playing bridge no matter how:

• green you are
  
• red your opponents are
  
• sure you are of RHO's read
  
• bad LHO's overcalls are
  
• much UI you got from your partner
  

[jukmoi]

All of us can defeat 2♦. None of us (so far) would pass.

[pooltuna]

Late to the thread and arguably guilty of 'piling on', but to the OP...did you post this to show what a genius you are or to try to learn something?

 

If the former, sorry...I think it is unanimous that passing the double is one of the worst calls posted on this forum in a long time. It is partnership-destroying action.

 

If the latter...why all the replies trying to justify a stupid call?

 

[snip]

And I thought he was volunteering to be a subject in our "Is ESP really UI thread? "

:lol:

[bid_em_up]

Was there a point to this thread?

 

Passing is horrendous.  There is no other way of putting it.

How?

 

give partner:

 

(hands deleted)

 

at these colors putting up 500 or 200 will probably be good, and with the spade lead coming I'm gonna have options to find the right defense.

just sharing a hand from the previous day, but this isn't the first time I've found success in a pass with a spot like this, only at these colors would it even be considered, and yes I can get a fat zero perhaps a majority of the time, but feelings about hands shouldn't be ignored.

 

For every hand you give, I could give 100 more where passing doesn't work. What you apparently do not appreciate is that bridge is a partnership game and you have a duty to your partner to continue to describe your hand (2♠ is about as easy a call as you will ever get). To pass here is taking a unilateral position based on "insert more bs here" that may or may not work. It is 100% losing bridge, regardless of the actual result on this hand.

 

However, feel free to do as you wish. Just don't expect me to agree with your bs.

[peachy]

my logic at the table was

 

1) partner doesn't have 3 spades

2) partner doesn't have 5 hearts

3) partner has K of clubs, shortness in spades, and with a heart card, South is going down 2 red.

 

Some of these were table feel, some were implied. The interesting question is how to find 6+ tricks if they're there.

Tell us more about the table feel.

 

The other reasons you state, are invalid and lacking bridge logic.

[bucky]

:P

 

just sharing a hand from the previous day, but this isn't the first time I've found success in a pass with a spot like this, only at these colors would it even be considered, and yes I can get a fat zero perhaps a majority of the time, but feelings about hands shouldn't be ignored.

Bridge is a percentage game. Making a bad call doesn't mean it will work out 0% of the time, and a good call wouldn't work 100% either. If you agree that you will likely get bottom for a majority of the time, then by definition PASS is a bad call, even though you are able to construct hands where it leads to success.

[eyhung]

Personally, I don't understand why everyone is earnestly trying to teach Aaron what's right since he's clearly not interested in others' feedback -- he didn't even post this on the BI forum where I'd give him some leeway. I'm reminded of the timeless advice about not trying to teach a pig to sing -- it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

 

From a Machiavellian perspective, maybe we should let him carry on in his misguided beliefs so that we can get some good scores playing against him. I already know enough not to ever want to partner him, that's good enough for me.

[billw55]

Sorry in advance for the necro. I found this from a link in a more recent thread.

 

The situation here is, IMO, the single biggest obstacle to learning bridge: mixed feedback. It regularly happens that correct actions fail, and wrong actions work. This provides reinforcement in the wrong direction. If it happens a few times in succession (which inevitably it will), the psychological effect can be difficult to overcome.

 

This is exactly why the forums are good for learning: they provide an opportunity to unlearn the nonsense that might not be unlearned at the table for quite some time. Of course, you have to be willing to listen for it to work.

[MFA]

The situation here is, IMO, the single biggest obstacle to learning bridge: mixed feedback. It regularly happens that correct actions fail, and wrong actions work. This provides reinforcement in the wrong direction. If it happens a few times in succession (which inevitably it will), the psychological effect can be difficult to overcome.

Result merchants will never get really good at this game for sure.