Asking for aces

[dickiegera]

Bidding with no interference

 

1♣-1♦-1♠-2♥ {4th suit game forcing}

3♣-?

 

I hold Qx,AQxx,AKQxx,Qx and wish to ask for aces.

 

We play kickback so I believe that 4♦ would be keycard for ♣

or would it???

 

4NT would be asking just for aces

or is it????

 

Any other suggestions would be welcomed

Openers hand K10xxx,void,Jx,AKJxxx

If partner had bid 2♠ instead of 3♣ then would

4NT be ace asking or keycard for ♠??

 

Help & thank you

[aguahombre]

are four people bidding, or just two?

[blackshoe]

Two bidding.

 

4♦ is kickback for clubs.

[peachy]

I would have bid 2S over 2H, I like to have our shape clear in a GF auction when there is no reason not to get it clear. In the given auction, I would think 4D is kickback for clubs.

[jjbrr]

peachy nailed it.

[jillybean]

peachy nailed it.

Agree, and so

1♣:1♦

1♠:2♥

2♠: 4N is keycard for ♠

[dickiegera]

peachy nailed it.

Agree, and so

1♣:1♦

1♠:2♥

2♠: 4N is keycard for ♠

If 4NT is kickback for ♠

 

I assume that there is no bid that just asks for Aces

 

Thank you

[Stephen Tu]

I would have bid 2S over 2H, I like to have our shape clear in a GF auction when there is no reason not to get it clear

 

peachy nailed it.

 

Am I the only one who plays 2♠ here as not guaranteeing 5-6?

I mean what do you do with some 4225/4315 hand, no heart stop?

Is it really better to have 3♣, the higher bid, be less defined, or bid 2nt with hearts wide open to cater to the rarer 5-6 hands?

[Dwingo]

peachy nailed it.

Agree, and so

1♣:1♦

1♠:2♥

2♠: 4N is keycard for ♠

IMHO there is no need to jump to 4N so quickly. Go slow as pd can't pass your bid in a GF force auction. The 4th suit Force bidder is usually expected to announce the Trump strain at his next turn, as he would now have a good idea about partner's shape by now. That is the reason, partner is expected to descibe his shape as best as possible.

 

So in this auction, I would just bid 3♠, setting ♠ as Trump. Bidding 3♣ would be setting ♣ as trump. Partner now can Cuebid and you will get another turn to bid your version of Keycard Blackwood.

 

The corollary to this, if there are other known routes to RKC, then a direct 4NT after 2♠ should be Quantitative.

[Mbodell]

Strongly agree with Dwingo, 4nt is quantitative. My partner and I had a minor accident with this in New Orleans, but sometime if you use fsf you have the suit controlled and you are thinking of a slam, and then when partner rebids their suit you now know no trump is the right strain but you don't know the right level. I like 4nt quantitative in the OP auction when his partner bid 3♣. Even if you were not playing kickback, 4nt should still be quantitative. You can cue bid (setting trump) or raise the trump suit (setting trump) when you want to explore the suit slam.

 

While I think Stephen makes a good point about why maybe 2♠ shouldn't necessarily guarantee 5-6, for me it pretty much does.