Rate These Conventions

[gurgistan]

Hello,

 

I would like the following conventions and conventional bids rated on how commonly they are found on BBO.

 

We need a scale: Let us call Stayman 9.5/10 and Blackwood 9/10 (distinguishing it from RKB).

 

How would you rate:

 

Lebensohl

Ogust

Sandwich 1N

Cappelletti

DONT

Gambling 3N

Smolen Transfers

Texas Transfers

Namyats

 

Any and all help appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

[TylerE]

Btw, I'd rate plain BW as more like a 6.

 

Lebensohl - 10

Ogust - 7

Sandwich 1N - 3

Cappelletti - 2

DONT - 6

Gambling 3N - 4

Smolen Transfers - 9

Texas Transfers - 10

Namyats - 3

[Phil]

If I were to sit down with a random expert (not some purported expert), I would expect the relative frequency of these methods to be:

 

Lebensohl - 10

Ogust - 3

Sandwich 1N - 2

Cappelletti - 5

DONT - 5

Gambling 3N - 9

Smolen Transfers - 9

Texas Transfers - 10

Namyats - 2

 

In other words with Texas and Lebensohl I would be 100% sure that this was being played across the table and I wouldn't even bother to ask.

[jillybean]

I'd rather see it rated as to how useful the experts consider these to be :angry:

[TylerE]

That's how I rated mine jilly. That's why my score for G3NT is so low... it's great the once a year it comes up. I still play it though as I can't come up with a better (GCC legal) use for the bid.

[inquiry]

My guestimate on what you find online....

 

Lebensohl - 5 (should be a 10, experts all play it)

Ogust - 1 (about right)

Sandwich 1N - 6 (that is too high, experts tend to avoid this)

Cappelletti - 6 (way to high, cappelletti isn't good)

DONT - 2

Gambling 3N - 8 (very common, problem is no agreement on side cards)

Smolen Transfers - 5 (probably should be higher, most experts play it)

Texas Transfers - 5 (if we lump the south african texas or whatever it would be higher... 4 level transfer SHOULD be played)

Namyats - 0.5 Few people play them

 

If you are really seriously interested, someone could get statistics to try to support my guesses using bridgebrowser (find namyats hands, find texas transfer hands, etc, and see frequency of the bids). I am just not that interested in finding out.

 

I think Phil's guesses for what pros do with these are reasonable.

[pooltuna]

Smolen

Texas Transfers

Ogust

Namyats

Sandwich 1N

Gambling 3N

Lebensohl

Cappelletti

DONT

 

changed to approximate order of value

[barmar]

But the OP asked how commonly they're played on BBO. 99% of the players on BBO are not experts, or even advanced, despite what they say in their profiles.

 

If you sit opposite a random BBO player, I'd expect that the only one of those conventions likely to be in their profile is Capp (I have no idea why this is so much more common than DONT, which is just as simple and obviously better -- maybe intermediates think they really need the penalty double that hardly ever comes up).

[Siegmund]

Answers will vary a lot, depending who your usual set of partners and opponents is... here is my stab, which I feel is representative of quality regional-level players but not necessarily of top pros:

 

Frequency:

 

Nearly universal:

Texas, Gambling 3NT

Lebensohl or one of its variations. (maybe three-quarters textbook leb.) Frequency will drop off rapidly as you move down to intermediate players.

 

Common, but ask about it before you assume it's in effect:

Capp/DONT (most people know both, and many play whichever their partner du jour prefers)

Smolen

Ogust (I think it's more common than feature - but again, there's more than one set of responses, so don't use it unless you've talked about it first)

 

Uncommon:

Sandwich

 

Very rare:

Namyats

 

Usefulness:

 

Lebensohl (or something similar): vital

Ogust: helpful, but not spectacularly better than features

Sandwich 1N: I consider it very useful (and the natural alternative downright dangerous), but we've had threads on sandwich where people who play in very strong fields feel differently.

Cappelletti/DONT: neither is my preference, but SOMEthing to get some 2-suiters into the bidding is good.

Gambling 3N: ~shrug~

Smolen Transfers: zero

Texas Transfers: useful, and no better alternative - but only a modest improvement over putting them all through 2-level transfers.

Namyats: modest but imo not worth the cost of reduced minor-suit preempt ability

[Fluffy]

I always though that Ogust is just an american thing, do many europeans play it?

 

lebenshol can be played in many situations so just saying that you play it doesn't mean much.

[nigel_k]

The most valuable convention by far is the takeout double, not Stayman. I don't really know how to assign scores out of 10 but of the listed ones I would say Lebensohl, Texas, Smolen, Gambling 3N in that order and I don't play the others.

[eyhung]

My rating of these conventions's usefulness :

 

Lebensohl: Useful and frequent. Fairly complicated so you won't see it in kitchen bridge but a staple of expert bidding.

Ogust: very useful with often 5 card weak-two style, not as good as feature with consistent weak-two style. More complicated to remember than feature.

Sandwich 1NT: Terrible convention unless passed hand, natural is necessary against opponents who respond light in the modern fashion. I've needed the natural 1NT to reach our normal 3NT at least 3 times in the past year. I can't remember the last time I needed a sandwich 1NT to compete as UPH, usually I can just double or bid 2NT instead.

Cappelletti : Terrible convention. Uses 2D for majors (no room to ask), uses 2C to show an ambiguous one-suiter (so partner will be unable to effectively compete if the opponents respond), uses double as penalty (which comes up once in a blue moon and then you won't be on firm ground with continuations). Worst convention of the 8 by far.

DONT: Acceptable but not best since it focuses on the minors. Biggest advantage is simplicity (easy to remember) and efficiency (you can play all your fits at the 2-level)

Gambling 3NT: I don't like it, I can't remember when I needed it to get a good board, but there is no other acceptable common standard.

Smolen: Fills a nice hole in the NT structure and allows the strong hand to declare. Not necessary but nice to have.

Texas: Useful, common, and fairly frequent.

Namyats: Never played it, no opinion.

[Phil]

If I were to sit down with a random expert (not some purported expert), I would expect the relative frequency of these methods to be:

 

Lebensohl - 10

Ogust - 3

Sandwich 1N - 2

Cappelletti - 5

DONT - 5

Gambling 3N - 9

Smolen Transfers - 9

Texas Transfers - 10

Namyats - 2

 

In other words with Texas and Lebensohl I would be 100% sure that this was being played across the table and I wouldn't even bother to ask.

My table of usefulness is:

 

Lebensohl - 10

Ogust - 6

Sandwich 1N - 0

Cappelletti - 2

DONT - 3

Gambling 3N - 3

Smolen Transfers - 10

Texas Transfers - 9

Namyats - 7

[junyi_zhu]

Hello,

 

I would like the following conventions and conventional bids rated on how commonly they are found on BBO.

 

We need a scale: Let us call Stayman 9.5/10 and Blackwood 9/10 (distinguishing it from RKB).

 

How would you rate:

 

Lebensohl

Ogust

Sandwich 1N

Cappelletti

DONT

Gambling 3N

Smolen Transfers

Texas Transfers

Namyats

 

Any and all help appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

If you play transfers, you don't have to play lebensohl.

Some forms of ogust is a must after a wide range weak 2.

Sandwich 1NT will be dumped for sure.

I am neutral about capp.

DONT isn't very good at all.

Gambling 3NT is indeed a very bad convention, considering the intrinsic wrong side problem.

Smolen and texas are the most useful ones in the list.

Namyats is rather bad.

[Cascade]

Lebensohl - 6 - there are alternatives but most true experts play this

Ogust - 3 - I usually prefer feature showing or even shortage showing after weak 2♦

Sandwich 1N - 1 - far from essential

Cappelletti - 4 -prefer multi-Landy (although I aways called it modified Cappelletti or Hamilton) or some other defense especially against weak no trumps.

DONT - 4 - ok against a strong NT

Gambling 3N - 1 - dispensible

Smolen Transfers - 7 - most valuable over a strong no trump

Texas Transfers - 7 - good for the slam implications with Jacoby Transfers

Namyats - 2 - prefer a natural 4♣/♦

[peachy]

If I were to sit down with an unknown expert and all we say is 2/1 and UDCA, these* are what I would expect to apply always, in addition to the rest of the "usual stuff".

This ** is what I play with many partners.

The number says how commonly played I estimate these. For a reference point, I expect Regular Stayman over 1NT to be 10

*Lebensohl** 10

Ogust** 7

Sandwich 1N** 5

Cappelletti** 8

DONT** 5

Gambling 3N** 5

Smolen Transfers** 8

*Texas Transfers** 10

Namyats** 2 (I play this with only 1 partner)

[peachy]

But the OP asked how commonly they're played on BBO. 99% of the players on BBO are not experts, or even advanced, despite what they say in their profiles.

 

If you sit opposite a random BBO player, I'd expect that the only one of those conventions likely to be in their profile is Capp (I have no idea why this is so much more common than DONT, which is just as simple and obviously better -- maybe intermediates think they really need the penalty double that hardly ever comes up).

Except that they don't understand A ) what a penalty double is and B ) that it is supposed to be left in close to 100% of the time. What they play is Equal Values Double and they expect it to be pulled about 90% of the time, but still calling it Penalty.

[zasanya]

My impression of most commonly used conventions on bbo is

texas transfers ( i assume u mean 2 level) 10

Capelletti/ 9

Ogust / lebensohl/ dont 7

smollen 6

namyats /gambling 3 nt 3

Sandwich 1 NT 1

Importancewise Transfers and Lebensohl are indispensable.

Sandwich NT seems quite useful but hardly anyone I know plays it.

Gambling 3nt is not at all useful.

Others have some merit but could be substituted by other conventions.

[bluecalm]

Before reading replies:

 

Lebensohl : very good convention; clearly it's much better than natural meaning of the bid and profits are huge and frequent

 

Ogust - ok convention; i don't have experience enough to say

 

Sandwich 1N - you mean 2 suiter right ? I think it's good I can live without classical 1nt

 

Cappelletti - worst convention ever; absolutely retarded; all natural is much better than capp; all natural + 2♣ majors is like 100x better;

 

DONT - better than capp but still bad; at least it has merits in bal position

 

Gambling 3N - looks stupid but I think it's profitable to play that way with hands that qualify (comparing with opening then 1m or 3m); maybe there are some better meanings of the bid but gambling 3NT is at least decent;

 

Smolen Transfers - meh; i prefer other ways to show major 2suiter and I think you need other way to show 5-5 too to avoid being on 4 level opposite 2-2-(4-5);

 

Texas Transfers - very good convention; there aren't many alternative uses for jump that high anyway;

 

Namyats - very bad; again all natural is much better;

 

I rate convention retarded if natural meaning of the bids is both better and simpler to play. According to this definition Capp and Namyats is retarded and DONT is borderline retarded.

[bluecalm]

I always though that Ogust is just an american thing, do many europeans play it?

 

During evolution of strong pass systems in Poland many of them used ogust like replies (so 2x opener was 5+ cards 8-12hcp one suiter and answers to relay were badhand/bad suit/ good hand-bad suit etc.)

[mikeh]

I'd rather see it rated as to how useful the experts consider these to be  B)

lebensohl......8...it is very good but there are better schemes, including rubensohl.

capelletti: 0 I know of no good player who would play capp. It is one of the least effective methods

sandwich 1N: 2. It made sense in the old days when seeing LHO open and RHO respond meant that your combined assets were almost never better than 22 hcp. These days, with everyone opening on air and responding on less, you need the strong 1N

Ogust: 7. There are different versions available, and I'd give a souped-up version an 8

Gambling 3N: 3 or maybe 4. A bad convention, but if you are going to open 3N, this isn't utterly hopeless

Naymats: 7 if only because it eliminates gambling 3N opening bids! I like a modifed version that is, imo, better for slam bidding while making life more difficult for the opps: 4C is a broken major, 4D is a no-loser major.It is important to have good follow-ups.

Texas:10. S.A. Texas has some advantages but is rarely played so in real life, I'd be happy with Texas. A very, very useful gadget.

Smolen: 8. Over strong 1N openings, very useful. I play a modified version of stayman over 2N, and this includes a modified smolen.

DONT: 3. It is far better than cappelletti but inferior to any number of other methods. It's main attribute, apart from being better than the dreadful capp, is that it is very, very easy to play.

[aguahombre]

"Ogust: 7. There are different versions available, and I'd give a souped-up version an 8"

 

Hey, Mikeh: if it is not too much trouble could you email me a good souped-up version?

[bill1157]

I would be curious how people (experts) would rate cap against just playing natural over 1NT (which is what I prefer).

 

Also, if you play double of interference over 1NT as negative, doesn't this take care of most issues as well as lebensohl?

 

Bill

[gwnn]

Ogust is easy to memorise, you just say

 

5566 or

5656

 

and memorise the number. Then you agree where/when is it appropriate to actually have 5 cards for your preempt.

[eyhung]

Ogust is easy to memorise, you just say

 

5566 or

5656

 

and memorise the number. Then you agree where/when is it appropriate to actually have 5 cards for your preempt.

That's exactly why I said ogust is harder to memorize than feature. Knowing whether your partner thinks it's 5566 or 5656 is important, and I've played with partners in both camps. With feature, all I need to remember is "feature".

 

On an absolute scale, the memory component of ogust is not high, but on a relative scale, ogust is more work to remember than feature.