What next?

[awm]

Playing 2/1 at matchpoints, you hold:

 

♠QJx

♥x

♦AKQJTxx

♣Ax

 

You're dealer and open 1♦, the auction proceeds:

 

1♦ - P - 1♠ - 2♥

X* - P - 2♠ - P

3♥ - P - 4♦ - P

???

 

* support double

 

Do you agree with the auction so far? What next?

[aguahombre]

My problem is: I have shown great strength and 3-card spade support, but partner might have had to bid 2S with a run of the mill response and only 4 spades. So, the support double hasn't really helped me know what trumps are.

 

What would partner have done differently with KXXX XXXX XXX KX? So, even playing support doubles, It would seem I would be better placed to have bid 3H instead of that double. Big hand. almost always 3 spades because of failure to do something else, long diamonds, etc.

 

Then, partner could set spades with 5+, or diamonds otherwise.

 

Having not done that, I don't even know if Wood is for spades if I bid 4NT now.

[the hog]

My problem is: I have shown great strength and 3-card spade support, but partner might have had to bid 2S with a run of the mill response and only 4 spades. So, the support double hasn't really helped me know what trumps are.

 

What would partner have done differently with KXXX XXXX XXX KX? So, even playing support doubles, It would seem I would be better placed to have bid 3H instead of that double. Big hand. almost always 3 spades because of failure to do something else, long diamonds, etc.

 

Then, partner could set spades with 5+, or diamonds otherwise.

 

Having not done that, I don't even know if Wood is for spades if I bid 4NT now.

And that is one of the major problems with support doubles, is it not? I have no idea what to bid now and guess 5D. I suppose responder has shown only 4S.

[cherdanno]

Uhhh, if only there was a way for partner to clarify whether he has 4 or 5 spades over 3H...

 

Anyway, I would give it a try with 4♥ now. I am willing to give up on 4♠.

[655321]

If 4♥ asks partner to choose between 4♠ in the Moysian and 5♦ it would be ideal, but I don't think it does. I will try 5♦ instead.

 

I would be better placed to have bid 3H instead of that double.  Big hand. almost always 3 spades because of failure to do something else

Even if that is true in System Aquaman (and I would be very surprised!) it is obviously completely false when playing support doubles.

[aguahombre]

If 4♥ asks partner to choose between 4♠ in the Moysian and 5♦ it would be ideal, but I don't think it does. I will try 5♦ instead.

 

I would be better placed to have bid 3H instead of that double.  Big hand. almost always 3 spades because of failure to do something else

Even if that is true in System Aquaman (and I would be very surprised!) it is obviously completely false when playing support doubles.

Surprised is fine, and the 3-card support is kind of like Bridge Logic to us. I know there is a difference for people who play support doubles but:

 

It seems inconvenient to use them with such a wide range of strength, whether the auction is likely to get more competitive or not. No forcing pass is created, among other things. So, perhaps foregoing whatever 3H would have meant to you and using it as in "System Aguaman" anyway might be useful with a powerful hand like the given one. Then the support double can have some limits (useful information).

[gnasher]

If you want to offer a choice of games, 4♠ will do that.

 

Personally, I want to invite slam in diamonds. I bid 4♥, hoping that partner will take control if he has ♠AKxx.

 

He'll also drive slam on a less suitable hand such as Axxx xxx xxx KQx. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. RHO's bid suggests high cards, but also shorter spades than his partner.

 

I don't understand the complaints about the support double. We have found out that partner has only four spades, less than invitational values, and no heart stop. That's not so bad.

[Fluffy]

I am happy with just 5 diamonds.

[pooltuna]

6♦

[ONEferBRID]

4H! as kickback for Diam and you'll find out if you are off 2 Aces.

If not, then 6D.

[jdonn]

These criticisms of support doubles are lol. Partner has only 4 spades because he bid 4♦, so we know exactly what trumps are! Here I have a solid 7 card suit that partner has just supported and it looks like a good place to play to me. I agree with gnasher that 4♠ here is a choice of games so 4♥ is a slam try for diamonds, so I'll try 4♥ then give up. I actually fear I'll miss slam when partner has AKxx of spades only, etc, but that was probably inevitable in any case and I'll reach some of my slams this way.

 

TY support doubles for making the auction so easy? If I bid 3♥ over 2♥ then is partner supposed to rebid a 5 card spade suit? If he does then how do I know what to do with a doubleton spade? Support doubles helped here a ton despite the confusion of those who aren't used to using them! I got an extra bid in from partner before the cuebid which gave me the immediate information that he is minimum and that he doesn't have exactly 4 spades with 4+ diamonds. Since I know now he has exactly 4 spades I also know he has almost surely exactly 3 diamonds. I would have none of that information if I had bid 3♥ immediately.

 

I await with anticipation to find out what aquaman would do with A xx AKQJxxx Axx here if not 3♥?

[aguahombre]

I await with anticipation to find out what aquaman would do with A xx AKQJxxx Axx here if not 3♥?

Hence, "almost surely 3-card spade support". Remove 3S to 4D, though I really don't believe you were waiting with anticipation for that, and really believe you won't like it (for good reason, no doubt --but on frequency 3-?-6+-? might be more likely of the big hands which are also hard to describe without the cue).

 

Alternatively, maybe there are some agreements we could make about good/bad ---Calling it good/bad/good and using 2N, then 3H :)

 

By the way, I wasn't really criticising support doubles. I just think there are problems when the range is so huge.

[jdonn]

I await with anticipation to find out what aquaman would do with A xx AKQJxxx Axx here if not 3♥?

Hence, "almost surely 3-card spade support".

Ah I now have my translator out. "Almost surely 3 card support" means "No more likely 3 card support than for anyone else but I simply consider the massive amount of cases of less than 3 card support to be the exception."