After a takeout double

[Hanoi5]

Say you double an opening bid of 1♣, how can you continue after partner bids a suit at minimum level:

 

1♣-X-Pa-1♥

Pa-???

 

When 1♠ and 2♦ are natural 17+ (no ELC), how forcing are they?

What would 2♥, 3♥ and 4♥ mean?

What would 2♣, 3♣ and 4♣ mean?

How about jumping in ♠ or ♦?

 

Holding a hand where you have game for certain in one of the unbid suits what would you bid? If you need just a little for slam, for example.

[gwnn]

1♠ and 2♦ are completely non-forcing

2♠ and 3♦ are still completely non-forcing.

2♥ is about 13-16, i.e. a nice takeout double, with 4 hearts

3♥ is more than 2♥

4♥ is quite strong albeit partner should not bid over it.

 

2♣ normally denies 4 hearts unless it is extremely strong.

3♣ I don't know. good question

4♣ is a better hand than 4♥ with real club shortness. he sees a slam opposite the perfect maximumish hand.

[Cascade]

1♠, 2♦ are non-forcing and limited

 

2♠, 3♦ are stronger but still limited - I learnt 19+ hcp but I also learnt double and bid was 16+ so probably a bit stronger than that.

 

2♥ I do this fairly freely almost automatically with four hearts

 

3♥ this is a good hand but requires partner to have something decent for game - more than one trick

 

4♥ this is a hand that can see game with very little or nothing from partner maybe ♠ xxx ♥ AKQx ♦ AKQxx ♣ x as a near minimum. Obviously with less distribution or sure tricks you need more high cards.

 

2♣ denies a heart fit and shows around 19+ unlimited and unsuitable for another action.

 

3♣ I have never seen a standard treatment. Perhaps a splinter, perhaps a stopper ask, perhaps some other specialized agreement

 

4♣ splinter

[MFA]

Just a few random remarks:

 

I don't raise to 2♥ that freely if they haven't bid more than the opening bid. It shows at least some hope for game.

 

To make a forcing bid in a new suit, I'm used to having to X+cuebid+bid the suit, since X+bid or X+jump are not forcing in my methods. X+jump is descriptive with a good suit, so that partner doesn't need to worry much about trumps - just about having a few scattered fillers.

[mohitz]

Suppose the auction goes

 

(1♣) - X - (p) - 1♠

( p ) - 2♣ - (p) - 2♥

( p ) - 3♥

 

Is 3♥ forcing?

[Cascade]

Not for me.

[MFA]

Suppose the auction goes

 

(1♣) - X - (p) - 1♠

( p ) - 2♣ - (p) - 2♥

( p ) - 3♥

 

Is 3♥ forcing?

No. 2♣ was not gameforcing, so it would be illogical to be in a gameforce now just because we have found our strain.

 

To make a slam try, we'll have to splinter, or if that's is impossible, torture partner once more with 3♣.

[bluecalm]

In Poland we play that 1♥ promises some values (because 1♦ is negative) so all new suits and jump in NT is forcing to game.

After other openers than 1♣ you have their suit as a forcing bid available so there aren't many problems there.

If somehow partner refuses to play 1♦ as negative I would insist on playing 2♣ as artificial one round force in this auction.

[awm]

Apparently I'm in a minority on this, but I like to play opener's jump in a new suit as forcing. In the auction given, 1♠ and 2♦ are both 17+ (but not forcing) and I'd say the range is about 17-20 or 17-21. I think the range of hands where doubler is stronger than the upper limit of this but still doesn't want to force game is pretty small, and that bidding becomes too difficult if you have to worry about partner passing opposite your 23-count even after you double then jump shift.

 

Normally I play the cuebid (2♣) as showing takeout double shape (so not some off-shape hand with extras) with extras but without four-card support. Generally this is three-card support with a minimum of about 17 points.

[OleBerg]

I'm not so hot in this area, as I Play a strange convention called transfer-overcalls.

 

But I would like a bid that sets hearts, and is forcing for a round. 3♣ seems like a good candidate.