Double game swing

[mohitz]

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sjxxhxxxdjxxxck7x&w=skq9xxhjxdxcjt9xx&e=satxxxht9xxxdaqcq&s=shakqdkt9xxxca8xx]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Playing 2/1, the auction went

 

1♦ - (1♠) - p - (4♠)

X - (p) - p - (p)

 

4♠X=

5♦ makes too on the cards.

[Fluffy]

no blame IMO

[655321]

Assign the blame? Obviously South gets no blame at all, even if you want him to pass 4♠ for some strange reason, he will still score -420 instead of +600.

 

So if there is any blame to assign it must go to North, and I would give North some blame.

 

Firstly, he could have made things easy by bidding 2♦. I understand if you hate 2♦ because North does have a 4333 heap of rubbish. OTOH when the auction gets competitive it is good to raise when you have a chance, and for that reason I wouldn't criticize 2♦, in fact I even like it (sorry!).

 

Then the double, this is a takeout double with short spades, it is not a random 'extra values' double with a balanced 18 count. If partner has a good hand with no spades (maybe 1 spade on a bad day), and diamonds is his longest suit, bidding is more likely to be right. This is a different auction from one where East opens 4♠ and South doubles, in that situation South's hand is much less known, his diamond length is unknown, etc.

 

5♦ won't always make, and neither will 4♠, still it feels wrong to me for North, with no spade cards, and knowing of the big diamond fit, to pass throughout.

[nigel_k]

No blame.

 

North is quite close to bidding 2♦ over 1♠ but I think he has to pass 4♠X. South must have had an uneasy feeling that 4♠X was not his side's best spot but he has no choice other than double really.

[MarkDean]

Agree with 655321 except that I would not bid 2♦.

[bluecalm]

I think N should bid 2♦.

I also think N should pull the double but I am not that convinced as I am to bidding 2♦ on previous round.

[gnasher]

I blame North. 2♦ over 1♠ just looks normal to me. Having not done, that, when partner made a takeout double of 4♠, and he had undisclosed 4-card support with a working king, he really should bid 5♦.

 

(If the double wasn't for takeout, then I partly blame the partnership for playing methods that don't work.)

[hanp]

I would not bid 2D but agree with 5D.

[jdonn]

All this talk about 2♦ seems astounding to me, but I blame north anyway for not pulling the double. He does have Jxxx of the suit his partner opened, it's not like he is stuck for a place to go.

[whereagles]

I'm ok with 2♦ by north, but I wouldn't do it. Anyway, reality showed north would have done better to bid it :) He ended up with the last guess and guessed wrong. Ooops.

[JLOGIC]

All this talk about 2♦ seems astounding to me

Heh, this happens in a lot of threads....gnasher/655321 like to bid 2m really light in this auction and then I'm like wtf heh. Glad it was you this time, I'm with you though pard! I usually at least see their point and the upside but it seems particularly mad with this hand at this vulnerability.

 

2D when red/white with that hand seems pointless to me. It doesn't seem like you want to encourage partner to compete even on 1D 1S 2D 2S, and I would have thought you don't want to encourage partner to stretch to bid game in a competitive auction such as 1D 1S 2D 4S 5D.

 

If it's right to compete/bid at this vulnerability when we have a 4432 yarb, partner will bid again.

 

Not to mention if we end up in 2D doubled or undoubled that could easily be a disaster. How are you feeling on 1D 1S 2D p p X p p p. I'm not feeling great about it myself. I'm not even feeling great about 1D 1S 2D p p p.

 

Yes you can preempt them a little with 2D but thats pretty minimal imo also.

[jdonn]

At least 653321 seemed ashamed that he would bid it!

[JLOGIC]

I also am not sure if I'm agreeing with the sentiment of how obvious it is to bid 5D with the north hand.

 

South could even be 1444 with like x AKxx AKxx Axxx (you could easily be on for even 6 clubs if you have this hand, and obv could beat them multiple tricks).

 

Bidding 5D could lead to a huge disaster opposite this hand. At best you're going -200 or -100 instead of +300 or +500. At worst they double you with 4 trumps QT9 or w/e and you go for 500 instead of getting your 300.

 

Sure 1444 would be unlucky but 1453ish with a similar amount of honor tricks would not. We're still down and they're also still down.

 

I agree with bidding 5D though because partner is so often void (people do not bid 4S that often with only 4 trumps, even if they should). When partner is void bidding is usually (but not always) a winner, and even the occasional double game swing as here is possible. Pretty sure I would tank for a long time at the table though.

 

Maybe all this goes to gnasher and 655321's point that one should bid 2D immediately and not have to guess later, but I don't think this kind of situation is that common.

[jdonn]

1444 wouldn't be the only unlucky thing, AK AK A would be unlucky (for not defending) too. But yeah passing could work.

[nige1]

[the hog]

All this talk about 2♦ seems astounding to me, but I blame north anyway for not pulling the double. He does have Jxxx of the suit his partner opened, it's not like he is stuck for a place to go.

I agree with this post, but I would go even further. Bidding 2D with the Nth hand is worth a lol.

[dake50]

Partner no negX, no 2H.

I have AKQ +A +K = a trick above minimum in hcp, and S-void with 6-suit.

I'll try 4N --partner knows 5D unless C>>D(5-5 bids 5C).