Assign the blame.

[hanp]

Matchpoints.

 

AQJxx

Axxx

Qxx

A

 

10x

-

AK109xxx

KJxx

 

1D - 1S

3D - 4D

4H - 4S

5C - 5H

6D - 6NT

 

Down with 7D making.

[Fluffy]

its han's fault :o

 

If you happen to play 5NT as keycard ask or GSF north should bid it instead of 5♥, ♦AK are more important than ♠K wich can be discarded or finesed.

[hanp]

If you want to know keycards, wouldn't you bid 4NT over 4H?

[jjbrr]

If you want to know keycards, wouldn't you bid 4NT over 4H?

That's what I would have done

[cherdanno]

If this is a bidding contest, I blaim South. Looking at his hand, he should know that the right contract is either 2♦ or 7♦, so he can't jump to 3♦.

[jdonn]

I partly blame the 3♦, I think it's clearly an overbid and north rightly expected more high cards. But I also don't see why north couldn't just simplify with keycard over 4♥. So some blame for each, but definitely more for north who appears to have done too much guessing and not enough investigating.

[NickRW]

Mmmmm. It is true that North might have reasonably expected more high cards and a trifle less shape - which makes removing 6D to 6N quite understandable - but it also puts 7D in the frame. Plus the single club Ace and three trumps make it not unlikely that clubs ruffs will be important. The North hand is huge opposite the 3D rebid after all.

[quiddity]

I sympathize with North's decision not to ask for keycards; his hand is all keycards so it looks like it will work out better if South does the asking.

[whereagles]

1♦ 1♠

3♦ 4♦

4♥ 4NT

5♥ 5NT

7♦

 

5NT = any extras?

7♦ = pard must have the missing 3 aces. At worst this will depend on the club finesse. Ok, maybe that's a bit resulting. But hey it works.

 

Anyway, 4♠ seems like a daisy-picking bid and 6NT clearly didn't take into account that pard's 3♦ could have been based on length rather than strength. Hmm.. even more resulting? lol

[quiddity]

The other good reason for letting South do the asking is that North might be able to show the club shortness. He has reason to hope that the auction will continue with South asking for keycards and then asking for 3rd round club control.

[jdonn]

Also just a thought, but didn't south have the information to pull from 6NT to 7♦ anyway? The only suit where I think it seems north could be missing the ace would be hearts. But maybe I'm just resulting, at least it seems worth a thought though.

[Cascade]

3♦ is too much for me.

 

However after 3♦ it seems that it is easier for North to imagine 13 tricks.

 

Opposite a more normal 3♦ with club and heart cue-bids North can count 13 tricks at worst on the spade finesse.

 

Basically both players ran out of bidding space to describe all of the features of their hands or to gather enough information from partner.

 

In north's defense he many well have imagined the two small spades since south with club and heart controls chose not to Blackwood. However even then south should have ♦AK and ♥K and ♣K plus either a useful queen or seventh diamond for his bid. All of which make seven attractive if not certain.

[aguahombre]

I, too, dislike 3D ---and it probably influenced North's matchpoint decision to play 6N.

 

We end up in 6D, not 7 with the 2D rebid, but oh, well.

[mikeh]

If you are going to bid 3♦, I don't think you can safely cue 4♥ then 5♣. Partner is always going to play you for at least 15 hcp...so these cues will sound as if they are delivering the respective Kings....hence the easy 6N conversion by North.

 

Rebidding 2♦ will likely make it impossible for either partner to count to 13 tricks, but should allow the partnership to identify the lack of a second heart stopper.

 

After 3♦, I don't mind the 4♦ call, since simply asking for keycards is not likely to solve N's problems....how can he tell about the spade situation, or about 13 tricks? He won't be expecting to ruff 2 clubs in his hand, for example, if he finds out about the club K.

 

I just don't see a way clear to 7[DI. In particular, I see no way for S to take charge with any degree of assurance that he can find out what he needs to know, and I don't see how N can ever count 13 tricks.

 

Good hand for a relay method.

[hanp]

This was just bidding practice and I was north. After 3D I thought I wanted to be in the grand if partner had a spade cue, either a singleton spade or the king should usually be enough. When partner clearly denied a spade control I didn't visualize the possibility of a heart void, of course it was too late by then.

 

I think that if I asked for keycards, partner should show an even number with a void and the void should be in hearts, the only suit that was cuebid by opener. Then I could have bid the grand.

 

I don't blame myself too much. After bidding 4NT it is not clear that you can stay out of 7D when partner has xx Kx AKJxxx KQx, but get to the grand when partner has a singleton spade. I think the decision to bid 6NT was right but I don't see how partner can correct to 7D, we can easily be off an ace.

[jdonn]

If you can't find out whether a grand is either cold or on a finesse but there is a reasonable chance of either, isn't that good enough odds to just bid it? Especially when you're so strong that everyone will be in slam, assuming partner's 3♦ rebid is normal.

[billw55]

I, too, dislike 3D ---and it probably influenced North's matchpoint decision to play 6N.

 

We end up in 6D, not 7 with the 2D rebid, but oh, well.

And how was the score for 6♦?

[JLOGIC]

If you can't find out whether a grand is either cold or on a finesse but there is a reasonable chance of either, isn't that good enough odds to just bid it? Especially when you're so strong that everyone will be in slam, assuming partner's 3♦ rebid is normal.

Doesn't he need me to have stiff king of hearts or a heart void or KQ tight of hearts with a doubleton spade in order for it to be cold?

 

Dunno how likely that is.

 

One thing to consider is that I didn't bid 4N, I bid 5C. Sorry in advance to mikeh for this, but I'm a big keycard bidder, especially when the rest of my hand is kings. If I did have a hand like xx Kx AKJxxxx Kx I would always bid keycard over 4S.

 

Some alarm bells might go off when I bid 5C maybe but still hard to play me for 2074, I could easily be 3073 as well.

 

It's funny that mikeh suggested I cannot cuebid 4H and 5C though, in my mind I was thinking I did not do enough and had an easy 5N bid over 5H. I have a great hand if partner wants to bid a grand slam in diamonds and has all 3 aces to go with a diamond fit.

 

In retrospect at the time I was thinking that I would still have to worry about the club (might be on a club hook), or about the diamonds (partner could have Jx or even xx maybe, but not that likely for a direct 4D bid bypassing everything else). I probably need KQ of clubs or slightly better diamonds for 5N so I agree with my bid there.

 

Also on the note of "why did partner cuebid and not bid keycard" I couldn't really figure out why my partner was cuebidding if he had all the aces and the trump queen at the time. When a stiff spade vs a doubleton spade is crucial for him it makes sense though, and is a good decision imo.

[JLOGIC]

Regarding 3D, I'm sure most people would bid 2D but imo but the important thing is not HCP it's playing strength. I definitely feel like my hand has the playing strength for 3D, and it will be impossible to catch up on that after 2D.

 

Yes, we are very likely to get another chance after 2D (it was partnership bidding but in real life obv the bidding won't die). But that doesn't mean bidding 2D is great, I think we'll miss too many slams.

 

If partner bids 3N, I won't be ashamed of my dummy at all.

 

Case in point, good luck getting to 7D on this hand after a 2D rebid.

[bluecalm]

I think the way to play in standard'ish system is to have :

 

1♦ - 1M

2♦ - 3♦

 

available as not full invite and playing 2♦ as wide range.

 

That's being said I don't like standardish systems. In precision 3♦ is a must and then you wouldn't feel bad about cuebidding at all as partner really can't play you for much stronger hand (many 15hcp with 6diamonds or 14hcp with 7 diamonds could open 1♣).

 

As it went I think bidding 6NT is huge error. I don't think "playing for 15hcp" is plausible at all. Invite is invite and not "15 hcp", what if opener had 8 diamonds ? Would we expect him to bid 2♦ ?

[mikeh]

 

One thing to consider is that I didn't bid 4N, I bid 5C. Sorry in advance to mikeh for this, but I'm a big keycard bidder, especially when the rest of my hand is kings. If I did have a hand like xx Kx AKJxxxx Kx I would always bid keycard over 4S.

 

No apologies needed....if I held that hand, and had keycard available on that auction (strange tho it may seem, I prefer methods in which I don't have keycard at that point and might be regretting that preference on this sequence) I would have used it as well...I mean....with that hand you KNOW what to do over any response...which is the key to keycard (sorry about that).

 

In my preferred method, I bid 4N over 4♠ as a hand too strong for 5♦...I'd hear 5♣, and would bid 6♣....I'd expect partner to bid only 6N now....I will have telegraphed a spade issue. Admittedly, it is difficult to be objective when knowing the hands.

[gwnn]

is 2C really so retarded as its complete omission here would suggest?

[bluecalm]

Btw, any of you play version of RKCB where you can show void along with 2 keycards and queen ? (or later after queen ask?).

It seems that it would solve the problem of this hand as well.

[hanp]

Btw, any of you play version of RKCB where you can show void along with 2 keycards and queen ? (or later after queen ask?).

It seems that it would solve the problem of this hand as well.

I wrote in this thread that we indeed play that.

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you write that it would solve the problem. Yes, it would solve the problem on this hand if I choose to bid keycards, but it doesn't solve the problem of deciding whether to bid keycards. The ability to show voids doesn't help to distinguish x Kx AKJxxxx Kxx from xx Kx AKJxxxx Kx. On the first hand I prefer to play 7D, on the second I prefer 6NT.

[JLOGIC]

is 2C really so retarded as its complete omission here would suggest?

2C is weird but not retarded. Sometimes it will help partner judge his club holding better, but it will be tough to get him to understand you have SEVEN good diamonds later.

 

It does have the advantage of being less limited than a 2D rebid, and that could work in your favor.

 

I think a vast majority of people are rebidding diamonds because that is the main feature of the hand, and by far the most likely suit we belong in if we can't play NT, and after bidding 2C it's hard to get partner to let you play diamonds in a stiff.