Non Symmetric Valuation

[joshs]

Construct pairs of hands A and B where:

 

A is better than B when partner holds's a 10 count.

 

B is better than A when partner holds a 20 count.

 

Where better can be measure as Total Point expectation (assume NV) in your best contract over the set of possible hands partner might have, or total trick expectation in your best strain over the set of possible hands partner might have.

 

What hand types might have this wierd behavior?

[awm]

How about:

 

A: ♠xxxxxxx ♥AKx ♦Ax ♣x

B: ♠AKQJxx ♥xxx ♦xx ♣xx

 

Opposite doubleton spade and a 10-count, A often produces a making 4♠. Hand B seems less likely to make game, having more losers and flatter shape.

 

Opposite doubleton spade and a 20-count, A will make game easily, but slam is usually lousy because of spade losers. However, hand B will often produce slam opposite doubleton spade and a 20-count.

 

The theme of these two hands is that a long bad major suit is potentially a big asset for game bidding, but this sort of hand tends to be lousy for slam bidding unless partner has a good fit, because it's hard to avoid trump losers or to have enough length in a side suit to make slam without the running the major. However, I don't know how much this has to do with 10-count vs 20-count in partner's hand -- it's more that there exist hands which are good for game but not slam.

[quiddity]

I guess a trivial example would be

A: 13-card solid suit

B: 20-point balanced hand

[joshs]

Another class of hands:

 

Consider a 5431 hand and compare:

 

a. Axxxx Kxxx Kxx x

 

with

 

b. Axxxx Kxxx xxx A

 

opposite the 10 count, the stiff ace doesn't do much in a major suit contract, you rarely have the tempo and controls to

1. stop diamonds

2. unblock the CA

3. return to dummy

4. pitch diamond losers on good clubs

 

but opposite the 20 count, the stiff ace has much more value since it increasingly likely that you will be able to use the clubs to pitch diamonds, I think opposite the 20 count b becoms the stronger hand.

[Dirk Kuijt]

(slight thread hijack)

 

Albert Morehead, many, many, years ago asked this question:

 

which is the better holding?

 

QJT9xx

 

Kxxxxx

 

The answer is: it depends.

 

If partner has xx, then the first holding can always be played for two losers (and easily, by just leading the long suit), while the second always has two losers, and that requires 3-2 with the ace onside, and the ability to lead up to the king, and can easily lose four tricks with a 4-1 break;

 

But, if partner has Axxx, then the first holding still has half a loser (and you need to be able to lead from the QJ), while the second has a loser only 13% of the time, and there are no entry problems in playing the suit.

 

So, I expect the first would be better opposite a 10 count, but the second better opposite a 20 count.

[gnasher]

I'm not completely sure about this, but how about:

 

(A) xxx xxxx Axx xxx

 

(B) xxx xxxx Qxx Qxx

 

Opposite a 10-count, the ace is likely to be more useful, because it's a trick, an entry, a control, etc. Opposite a 20-count, the queens between them may be worth more than one trick or more than one entry, and control is unlikely to be an issue.

 

The companion 10- and 20-count might be

AQJxx xx xxx Kxx

AQJxx Qx KJx AKx or AQJxx Kx Kxx AKx

[gwnn]

I guess a trivial example would be

A: 13-card solid suit

B: 20-point balanced hand

huh.