Understanding the negative double

[mikeh]

Now that everybody agrees I have nothing to add, but:

 

Earlier this week I had 10 AQxx AK108xx Qx and it went 1C - (3S), all red at IMPs. Double or 4D? I bid 4D on automataic pilot but I now think double is quite a bit better.

I think you should stay on autopilot rather than thinking yourself into a negative double.

 

 

Surely partner will bid a natural 4♥ over 4♦ if he holds any 4 card heart suit?

 

The only contracts you miss via 4♦ are 3N and 3♠x'd.

 

You would be uncomfortable passing 3N on the one hand.....and if you don't pass, what do you bid...and what does that show?....and while defending 3♠ may work, and would certainly collect a decent number if he has his leave-in, you're surely going to be worried that you had a better spot...like at the 6 level.

 

And what does the poor fellow do with say xx Kxx Qxx AKxxx? Or Axx Kx QJx KJxxx.

 

Not that 4♦ is a panacea, but I hate concealing a slam suitable trump suit AND slam suitable high cards merely to cater to 3N or defending, both of which decisions will be made by partner based on what he expects a middle-of-the-road double should deliver....not what I actually hold.

 

If he does bid 4♥ over 4♦, I have an easy spade cue.

[pirate22]

if one is ply sayc-sayc2/1----and p opens 1cl opp comes in 1sp--x (neg) shows

8+ points any shape-you are looking for pards rebid,(If 3sp comes in)and p silent one canstill x

 

Usually if you bid as suggested 2d thats showing no tol for cl and a weak hand 7/8 points

[barryallen]

Now that everybody agrees I have nothing to add, but:

 

Earlier this week I had 10 AQxx AK108xx Qx and it went 1C - (3S), all red at IMPs. Double or 4D? I bid 4D on automataic pilot but I now think double is quite a bit better.

I think you should stay on autopilot rather than thinking yourself into a negative double.

 

 

Surely partner will bid a natural 4♥ over 4♦ if he holds any 4 card heart suit?

 

The only contracts you miss via 4♦ are 3N and 3♠x'd.

 

You would be uncomfortable passing 3N on the one hand.....and if you don't pass, what do you bid...and what does that show?....and while defending 3♠ may work, and would certainly collect a decent number if he has his leave-in, you're surely going to be worried that you had a better spot...like at the 6 level.

 

And what does the poor fellow do with say xx Kxx Qxx AKxxx? Or Axx Kx QJx KJxxx.

 

Not that 4♦ is a panacea, but I hate concealing a slam suitable trump suit AND slam suitable high cards merely to cater to 3N or defending, both of which decisions will be made by partner based on what he expects a middle-of-the-road double should deliver....not what I actually hold.

 

If he does bid 4♥ over 4♦, I have an easy spade cue.

The problem is that bypassing 3♠x and 3NT are significant. You have the addition that if partner bypasses 3NT, you have a lot of values working for you in a possible slam. Nothing to stop you venturing past 3NT and stopping in 4NT or 5 of a minor, the only real worry comes with leaving the hand in 3♠x. But as partners hand lies under the pre-empt, I believe that would take the edge from that decision?