Pass or raise to 6?

[jdonn]

The auction doesn't sound like one where we should be bidding, but then what has partner got?  xx x KJxxxx KJxx?

 

We'd have bid this way with an ace less and a 2542 shape.  That adds up to siginficant extra values.  I'd bid six.

If partner held this hand he'd bid 4♣, not 5♦.

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...5116&hl=auction

Ok, I've looked through that thread, and I can't find anyone who thinks that 4♣ shows a hand like the one I quoted. Here are some examples of what was suggested:

 

Josh suggested xx x Kxxxxx AQJx

Justin agreed with Josh

Ken suggested something that I don't understand

The Hog suggested x xx Kxxx AQJxxx

Yes I feel your example doesn't quite make it up to being a 4♣ bid, but it's still the right idea.

[Cascade]

I think the crucial point is whether or not partner could have made a lower forcing raise.

 

If so then 5♦ will often be a stretch and we have the extras that might allow it to make.

 

If not then our extras maybe enough for six.

[kfay]

The auction doesn't sound like one where we should be bidding, but then what has partner got?  xx x KJxxxx KJxx?

 

We'd have bid this way with an ace less and a 2542 shape.  That adds up to siginficant extra values.  I'd bid six.

If partner held this hand he'd bid 4♣, not 5♦.

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...5116&hl=auction

Ok, I've looked through that thread, and I can't find anyone who thinks that 4♣ shows a hand like the one I quoted. Here are some examples of what was suggested:

 

Josh suggested xx x Kxxxxx AQJx

Justin agreed with Josh

Ken suggested something that I don't understand

The Hog suggested x xx Kxxx AQJxxx

OK so 4♣ shows awesome ♣ values and a ♥ stiff, 5♦ mild ♣ values and a ♥ stiff. I'll remember that.

 

I guess I bid 6♦!!!!!!!

[neilkaz]

Pass.

 

Even, if your p does not play 2S, he had 4D av., which is certainly

forcing, so if 6D makes, the failure to reach it, would be the 5D bid.

 

And I would have bid 3D instead of 2D.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

I just want to make sure that you realize that in normal S/A systems opener's jump shift is GF. To me, while he has a nice hand, that seems quite a stretch to me. I'd want a 5th ♦ and for my ♣ to be Kx rather than Qxx to jump shift here as a min.

 

Comments please .. neilkaz ..

[neilkaz]

To the OP .. Little Kid, I do hope that if one thing comes out of this discussion other than that the decision to slam or not seems to be a guess, and that is that you and PD will in the future play some more detailed methods after 1♥-1NTF-2♦.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[Furlan]

Pass and yell at partner if it makes 6.

Or bid 6 and yell at partner if it's down.

[nigel_k]

xxx

x

KJxxxx

Jxx

 

If he has the ♣K instead of the ♣J he might bid the same way and slam is decent but certainly not laydown.

It's not a claimer at trick one, but it's close. OK, it goes down the 6% of the time that they can get a club ruff, and there's a risk of misguessing when trumps are 3-0 and one of the majors is something-1, but it's still well over 90%.

With ♣K but not ♣J, you don't have two club tricks so will need hearts 4-3 or pick the doubleton ace of clubs, plus a little more work if trumps are 3-0. Maybe 60%.

[gnasher]

xxx

x

KJxxxx

Jxx

 

If he has the ♣K instead of the ♣J he might bid the same way and slam is decent but certainly not laydown.

It's not a claimer at trick one, but it's close. OK, it goes down the 6% of the time that they can get a club ruff, and there's a risk of misguessing when trumps are 3-0 and one of the majors is something-1, but it's still well over 90%.

With ♣K but not ♣J, you don't have two club tricks so will need hearts 4-3 or pick the doubleton ace of clubs, plus a little more work if trumps are 3-0. Maybe 60%.

Sorry - I misread what you'd said before. I thought you were adding ♣K whilst retaining ♣J.

[peachy]

An advanced or better partner would bid 2S to show a good diamond raise, so 5D is a gamble and does not show a good hand. Pass. But for me, it is still just a little tempting, considering I have such good diamonds and four of them, and three aces. But Pass.

[Fluffy]

I am scared of missing ♣J but then he could just as well have ♠K along or maybe 3 clubs and 5th heart is good.

 

I am bidding 6. I don't care what 4♣ means, partner doesn't even know what 2♠ means in this sequence he will never think about 4♣.

[quiddity]

I'd like to think that I'd pass, but I have a tendency to take a shot on auctions like this and it frequently fails. My experience is that it doesn't pay to guess at slam on a hand where we might be off the AK of clubs, we have no obvious source of tricks, we might have a sure heart loser, etc.

 

Also, I think the argument that we should bid 6 because it's a minor suit at matchpoints doesn't hold here. Partner's bidding suggests an upgrade based on a huge fit and we have a suit-oriented hand. I doubt we have to worry about the majority of the field being in no-trump.