Suarez handball

[gwnn]

No middle road. The sports forums seem to be polarized on this issue.

[Fluffy]

he is the national hero

[Cascade]

A penalty kick and a red card seems an insufficient penalty to pay for a deliberate handball that stopped a certain goal.

 

Having said that if that is the rule then the player must weigh up the risk and reward. So it is hard to criticize his actions on that basis.

 

I think the rule is a bad rule so my critcism go with the rule makers.

[mike777]

impossible

 

 

1) at some point we do not want ref's to rule on goals.

2) this is an excellent example

 

 

 

3) I agree with rule and proceed.

 

 

 

stop....can we cheat and be fair or only only only cheat and be fair....clearly we cannot cheat and be unfair.....

 

 

to be clear.....foul...penalty....proceed.......nonexpert soccer

 

 

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otoh

 

 

have so kind of replay on goal......limit? ...experiment......

[jdonn]

They need a rule like bridge has that says you can't intentionally break a rule simply because you are willing to accept the penalty.

[Cascade]

They need a rule like bridge has that says you can't intentionally break a rule simply because you are willing to accept the penalty.

I was going to write something similar.

 

However I think that perhaps because we play a game with such a rule that our views are clouded.

 

Maybe the rule makers will want to move in this direction maybe not.

[mike777]

stop...

 

of course we can break a rule.....when we want....

 

 

WE CAN ALWAYS BREAK A RULE...

 

 

IN FACT IF THE RULES LET US...WE SHOULD......THEY LET US....-----------------------

 

 

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The real issue is when should we break a rule when the rules care......as not care.....

[mike777]

stop...the issue is not will a rule be broken..it will.....

 

 

the issue is so what?

 

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note...soccer is a game that is very very limited in terms of ath.....

 

 

if you limt the ath...rules....the players will break them...break them often......

 

 

soccer is a game with extreme ath rules...and the rules are broken all the time...all timer..

[mike777]

see american football

]

the game is extreme...painfull...no one cares......

 

the game has extreme injury...no one cares......

[jdonn]

Mods can we gag him, pleeeeeeease?

[TimG]

I'm not sure why it's called "self sacrifice". Sure, he doesn't get to play in the next game, but neither would he have played in the next game if he hadn't "sacrificed" himself (there would have been no next game). Nor will he be missing a paycheck or other compensation as a result.

[TimG]

They need a rule like bridge has that says you can't intentionally break a rule simply because you are willing to accept the penalty.

They need one of these in basketball too in order to prevent the intentional fouling that so often occurs at the end of the game and seems to make the final 1:00 of some game time last longer than entire quarters.

[hanp]

Good rule and great action by Suarez.

[gwnn]

They need a rule like bridge has that says you can't intentionally break a rule simply because you are willing to accept the penalty.

But there are millions of cases where defenders and defensive midfielders accept the penalty for their actions; for example they pull the shirt of some dude in the midfield because they judge the impending action to be too dangerous. Pulling a shirt is never legal so whenever someone tries to do it, it is intentionally breaking the rules (in contrast with a mistimed tackle which can show just a lack of skill.)

[hotShot]

Tactical fouls are part of many sports.

 

Of cause handball is cheating, but a red card and a penalty are adequate punishment.

Every team should have a competent penalty kicker, that way a penalty is almost always a goal.

[hrothgar]

Mods can we gag him, pleeeeeeease?

Or find some way to make sure that he stays on his meds

[Free]

I find it pretty normal: you have the rules, you know the consequences. Even if you break the rules, the ref doesn't always see it, so that's another chance you can take. Suarez didn't have anything to lose: if he let the ball through it was bye bye Uruguay, if he stopped the ball with his hands his team had a small chance of survival. He took the small chance, the ref applied the rules, tradegy for Guana. Breaking rules on purpose happens a lot in soccer, pretty much half of the yellow cards is an intentional breaking of the rules...

 

The biggest problem with the rules in soccer is that many of them don't have any logic in them. For example you score a penalty but your team mates run in the 16 before you shoot: you have to retake the penalty. Teammates running in the 16 is irrelevant to the fact that you beat the goal keeper. However, if you'd miss the penalty and your team mates score the rebound, the goal shouldn't count.

 

Anyway, it seems like the FIFA doesn't even care about rules being applied. With all the technical possibilities, why do so many human errors still occur? Is it really that difficult to give the 4th ref 5 minutes to reconsider decisions in case of a doubtful situation? We can see it immediately on our screens, so can the 4th ref, so you only need a rule where a decision made by the ref can be changed within a certain time frame by the 4th ref based on video footage. No more offside issues (linesmen have no reason to flag if they're not sure), no more schwalbes (the penalty won't count), less frustration because of human errors,...

[gwnn]

Teammates running in the 16 is irrelevant to the fact that you beat the goal keeper.

The goalie may be scared or intimidated by my teammates running at him. Anyway, where do you then draw the line? What if there was a teammate of mine standing in front of the goalie?

[Codo]

The biggest problem with the rules in soccer is that many of them don't have any logic in them. For example you score a penalty but your team mates run in the 16 before you shoot: you have to retake the penalty. Teammates running in the 16 is irrelevant to the fact that you beat the goal keeper. However, if you'd miss the penalty and your team mates score the rebound, the goal shouldn't count.

 

Anyway, it seems like the FIFA doesn't even care about rules being applied. With all the technical possibilities, why do so many human errors still occur? Is it really that difficult to give the 4th ref 5 minutes to reconsider decisions in case of a doubtful situation? We can see it immediately on our screens, so can the 4th ref, so you only need a rule where a decision made by the ref can be changed within a certain time frame by the 4th ref based on video footage. No more offside issues (linesmen have no reason to flag if they're not sure), no more schwalbes (the penalty won't count), less frustration because of human errors,...

I totally disagree.

 

There is a logic in disallowing the running into the pen. box. UNLUCKILY too many ref. do not look after this rule.

The logic has nothing to do with the rebound: If you allow the forwarders to enter the box, the kicker may simply PASS towards one of his teammates, who is a even better situation then the kicker himself.

 

Of course you can find other rules to make passes in this situation fruitless, but they would not be easier.

 

And of course the FIFA is interrested that everybody follows the rules. Mr Blatter himself apologised at England and Mexico for the big faults that had been made.

 

But they do not wish to introduce new technics without checking. They checked the chip in the ball, they checked 2 more refs. It was just not convincing so far.

 

And human errors are part of the game. If A. Gyan had not made a mistake, the game hand not been so epic. Mistakes are part of the game.

 

Games like icehockey and American Football are very used to a lot of breaks. So it is easy to use the breaks for a video challenge. Football is different. The rules try to make the game as fluent as possible. Video challenge have a lot of disadvantages besides their obvious advantages, so they are seldom the solution. (of course they had been in the 1/8 finals...)

[andrei]

And human errors are part of the game. If A. Gyan had not made a mistake, the game hand not been so epic. Mistakes are part of the game.

If the obvious off-side was called, Uruguay would be able to play Suarez in their semifinal against Holland.

[gwnn]

But they do not wish to introduce new technics without checking. They checked the chip in the ball, they checked 2 more refs. It was just not convincing so far.

Did they? I know they put two referees behind the goals in the Europa League but I don't know what the conclusions were. Anyway, have they ever tried the chips in the ball? If so, what constituted the arguments against it?

 

"Last game there were no contested goal-line decisions, so the chips were unconvincing" ?

[Phil]

They need a rule like bridge has that says you can't intentionally break a rule simply because you are willing to accept the penalty.

They need one of these in basketball too in order to prevent the intentional fouling that so often occurs at the end of the game and seems to make the final 1:00 of some game time last longer than entire quarters.

Disagree. Basketball already has goatending when the ball is in the cylinder. This is the same as Suarez' violation when the ball was at point blank range.

 

A flagrant foul when shooting is akin to a hockey player getting hooked (or a soccer player getting fouled) when he's on a breakaway. Neither player has actually scored yet, but they should get another fair opportunity.

 

Haven't checked in on any soccer threads but this handball rule is very strange. Where is the restoration of equity? As Josh said, bridge players are used to this.

 

Sitting out the next match is an odd penalty. Some might say its harsh, but it doesn't seem congruent with the actual penalty. I know of no other sport where you get to miss another game - suspensions leveled by hockey and basketball don't count in my mind; they are given by the league and they are not proscribed like soccer.

[pooltuna]

A penalty kick and a red card seems an insufficient penalty to pay for a deliberate handball that stopped a certain goal.

 

Having said that if that is the rule then the player must weigh up the risk and reward. So it is hard to criticize his actions on that basis.

 

I think the rule is a bad rule so my critcism go with the rule makers.

yes I think the rule should be sufficiently harsh that the players not only see no advantage to doing it but a significant disadvantage....IMO a penalty like automatic goal score seems to fit my definition.

[hotShot]

IMO a penalty like automatic goal score seems to fit my definition.

Also the balls weight is between 410 and 450 gr. (when dry) it can reach up to 130 km/h (80 mph).

This text explains why a soccer ball hits you harder than a baseball or puck.

 

 

Projectile weight  tops speed m/s Energy J
Soccer ball (kick) 430 35,6 270
Baseball (batting) 145 53,3 210
Hockey puck 170 46,7 190
Baseball (pitching) 145 44,4 140
Golf ball 46 71,1 120
Tennis ball 57 62,2 110

 

If you are standing on the goal line and the ball is flying towards your face or other sensitive parts of your body, you better use your hand to protect yourself.

The rules allow that.

The rules also state that if you are hit by the ball at your hand, this is no problem.

 

The book by Metin Tolan (Prof. of Physics Univiversity Dortmund Germany) title "So werden wir Weltmeister" subtitle: Die Physik des Fußballspiels explains that the contact time is only 0,008 sec. and that a humans visual processing needs a visual impression of more than 0,05 sec. to see what's actually going on.

 

So the rule contributes to the fact the referee might have gotten a wrong impression of the players intentions.

[kfay]

They need a rule like bridge has that says you can't intentionally break a rule simply because you are willing to accept the penalty.

They need one of these in basketball too in order to prevent the intentional fouling that so often occurs at the end of the game and seems to make the final 1:00 of some game time last longer than entire quarters.

Disagree. Basketball already has goatending when the ball is in the cylinder. This is the same as Suarez' violation when the ball was at point blank range.

 

A flagrant foul when shooting is akin to a hockey player getting hooked (or a soccer player getting fouled) when he's on a breakaway. Neither player has actually scored yet, but they should get another fair opportunity.

 

Haven't checked in on any soccer threads but this handball rule is very strange. Where is the restoration of equity? As Josh said, bridge players are used to this.

 

Sitting out the next match is an odd penalty. Some might say its harsh, but it doesn't seem congruent with the actual penalty. I know of no other sport where you get to miss another game - suspensions leveled by hockey and basketball don't count in my mind; they are given by the league and they are not proscribed like soccer.

Isn't a game misconduct accompanied by a suspension for the next game?