How much blame will we find?

[jdonn]

KT AK9xx Jx Kxxx

AQJxxxx Qxx Q Qx

 

1♠ 2♥

2♠ 3♣

3♥ 3♠

4♦ 4♥

4♠ 5♣

5♦ 5♥

6♠

 

1♠ opening limited to 15

2♥ forcing to game

2♠ promises 6

Otherwise everything through 3♠ was natural then (purportedly) cuebidding.

 

Comments? Blame? LOLs?

[mohitz]

No blame. Just unlucky both Aces were offside.

[Fluffy]

its just another case of my suit is the fit, yours is cuebid.

 

I think south should pass 4♥

[Hanoi5]

5♦ is the incorrect bid.

[ONEferBRID]

Seems to be a case where "real bridge players don't use Blackwood" and this is where it gets you.

I don't have too much of a problem with the early part of the given auction, but since the cuebids are "mixed" ( 1st or 2nd Rnd Ctrl... ) then you need RKC to sort it out.

When you do use RKC in a "double fit" auction, you also need a "rule" as to which suit is trump... normally the "highest" suit ( unless you have agreed to 6-Ace RKC ). Also, I think it a good idea for a king-rich hand to go RKC :

 

1S - 2H! ( 2/1 GF I presume )

2S - 3C ( why not 3S ?? )

3H - 3S

4D! - 4NT ( RKC for Sp )

5D ( 1 key ) - 5S

 

KT AK9xx Jx Kxxx

AQJxxxx Qxx Q Qx

 

1S - 2H! ( 2/1 GF )

2S - 3S

4D! - 4NT

5D ( 1 key ) - 5S

[gnasher]

The problem might have been caused by doubt about what trumps were, and possibly also by ambiguity about how strong each hand was.

 

I think 4♦ should set spades as trumps. In that case, I think 5♣ was a clearcut error. Hands where Keycard is the answer aren't as common as people seem to think, but on this hand it does look the right move if you're going to make one. 5♣ isn't going to tell you whether you're opposite ♣xx or ♣Qx.

 

There are other places where North might have bid differently: he might have raised spades immediately, or after 3♥ he might have set hearts as trumps so as to protect ♣K. However, I don't think not doing either of these was an error.

 

I'm not sure whether South's actions after 5♣ were right or not - it depends what sort of values he'd already shown with 4♦.

[whereagles]

This is a structural problem, caused by responder not realizing he's playing precision. Opener is limited and he had like 5 chances to end up the bidding in 4M and missed them all.

 

Still, 5♦ didn't help either.

[hanp]

Opener bid well, LOL at north.

[helene_t]

Responder needs to ask for keycards. He is captain, he has both major kings so doesn't care which kings can't be found by rkc, and he is the first to know that all suits are controlled.

 

Don't understand 5♦, though. Opener should sign off here IMHO.

[bid_em_up]

wtf is 4♦?

 

Opener has a terrible opening hand and should just bid 4♠ (imo).

[mikegill]

I blame North primarily, for his 5♣ bid. I think in a controls-based cuebidding style, 4♥ promises a club control since partner bypassed that suit. So, South knows all the suits are controlled, that North cooperated with a slam try, and yet he still signed off in 4♠. North does not exactly have extras for a 2/1, so it seems clear he ought to pass.

 

That being said I would never cuebid 5♦ as south - cuebidding twice on a singleton seems like a gross distortion. In fact, I probably would have signed off in 5♠, since my hand really isn't very good. Surely on this bidding the dQ has almost 0 HCP value, and I already tried for slam once based on my extra spade and good placement of singleton. However, if North had just passed 4♠ then I wouldn't have been in this situation.

[pooltuna]

Both for not having a clear agreement on the meaning of 4♥ & 4♠. North for not using Blackwood to check for aces and opting instead for 5♣. South for re-qbiding ♦ instead of just bidding 5♠

[cherdanno]

wtf is 4♦?

 

Opener has a terrible opening hand and should just bid 4♠ (imo).

Uuuuh - opener has quite a good hand given that he is limited. Not even cueing 4♦ would be criminal. Yes it's effectively a 11 count (AQJxxxxx Qxx x Qx) but WHAT AN 11 count! ♠K ♥AK and ♣A is all he needs for slam to be cold.

[billw55]

WHAT AN 11 count! ♠K ♥AK and ♣A is all he needs for slam to be cold.

Only four specific cards, all of them aces and kings? Rarely am I blessed with such a perfect dummy.

 

re: the OP - blame to both, for reasons already stated.

[hanp]

Are people really suggesting that opener shouldn't bid 4D? I agree with Arend that that would be criminal. All opener has shown at that point is 11-15 HCP with a 6+ spade suit and heart tolerance. Responder has shown a doubleton spade. Responder has no idea that opener's spade suit is nearly as strong. Moreover, opener has a diamond control and two well fitting queens. I think this is really quite a good hand, and I think that opener did perfectly by bidding 4D and then 4S.

 

Once opener signs off with 4S and responder forces opener to guess, I think it is quite reasonable to bid 6 based on the excellent spade suit and heart queen. Saying things like

Rarely am I blessed with such a perfect dummy.

 

is way off. Opener has really limited his hand and responder is pressing and pressing, why shouldn't opener expect a good dummy? Of course responder could have made this much easier by asking for keycards (or easier: by passing 4S).

[kgr]

Both for not having a clear agreement on the meaning of 4♥ & 4♠. North for not using Blackwood to check for aces and opting instead for 5♣. South for re-qbiding ♦ instead of just bidding 5♠

Agree with this.

 

5♦ cue after first cueing 4♦ should by 1st round control.

Or was 5♦ last train for ♥? But then he should pass 5♥.

=> I really don't understand 5♦

[Apollo81]

All of the bids up to/including 4♠ seem pretty obvious. I agree with responder not passing at this point but I'm not sure whether I'd bid 5♣ or 5♥. I would have bid 5♠ over 5♣ with opener's hand. Having already bid 5♦, opener has an obvious 5♠ bid over 5♥.

[hotShot]

I don't like a 4♦ bid that can be a mixed cuebid or shortness.

But still it must set ♠ as trump suit.

If that is the agreement, than it did not cause the problem.

 

But what is 5♦?

[CSGibson]

5♦ is taking some potshots, but I sort of admire the bid, personally, as it is the best way to find out if partner can cue-bid the K of hearts. Without that cue, you'd just be guessing. I recgonize that it might also have some other problems (ie, partner now takes control after you've shown diamonds)...

[aguahombre]

Responder needs to ask for keycards. He is captain, he has both major kings so doesn't care which kings can't be found by rkc, and he is the first to know that all suits are controlled.

This is right; and the detractors of 4♦ should look at North's hand and realize the bid made it possible for North to take over.

 

After 4♦, North can ask for aces (doesn't matter in this case, but this is a six keycard auction). North finds out two are missing and signs off in a major.

[neilkaz]

I don't mind the auction up to 4♠ (don't mind the 4♦ cue bid)although I could have bid differently a couple of times.

 

However, when I see the terrible 5♣ cue bid I envision an engineer on an old time locomotive train and he is yelling "Ramming speed" to the two workers shovelling coal onto the fire.

 

North can find out what he needs to know for slam by simply bidding RKC and since he holds both major suit kings there's no abiguity as to what key cards South can hold. North should envision the very real possibilty that South cue bid a stiff ♦ and also note that South failed to cue 4♣ so he can't really expect a control there. 5♣ is so bad that I have to give the majority of the blame to North.

 

Now..with his 5♦ bid, the engineer of the South train (opener's) is also screaming "Ramming speed". LOL why cuebid a stiff queen twice? South has nothing more to add to the cuebidding discussion and should certainly try to sign off in a major.

 

Why 6♠ from opener instead of trying to sign off in 5♠? Perhaps South felt that North's 4♥ bid bypassing ♣ combined with his 5♣ bid bypassing Blackwood guarantees the ace and also more slam interest than North should have with that hand opposite a precision 1♠ opening.

 

Anyhow... 5♣ was superbad and 5♦ very bad. 6♠ seems to be quite unfortunate and based on the missinterpretation North started with his 5♣ bid.

 

" Yes Sir .. mission completed, Sir"

 

http://redstick.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/trainwreck2.jpg

[Fluffy]

Responder has shown a doubleton spade.

responder has shown ♠K, nothing to do with how many cards he's got, in fact he is quite likelly to have it stiff given his will to show clubs instead of showing support the round before.

[hanp]

Now..with his 5♦ bid, the engineer of the South train (opener's) is also screaming "Ramming speed".  LOL why cuebid a stiff queen twice? South has nothing more to add to the cuebidding discussion and should certainly try to sign off in a major.

Presumably because south judged (correctly imo) that he was too good for 5S. Perhaps 5H is better as a "last train" bid, but maybe south was afraid to show the ace or king of hearts.

 

It is so easy to say that south should certainly try to sign off when we can see that north has made a huge overbid, but south did not know that. All south knows is that north is still trying for slam after he signed off. How much more can south have? And what is north looking for, it can't be keycards. Perhaps north is worried about trumps?

 

Could north have xx AJ10xx Ax AKxx?

 

That would make 6S a very good slam, and with that hand north can't ask for keycards because with a spade holding such as ♠AQxxxx slam would be bad. It seems crystal clear to me that south should at least cooperate.

 

By the way, we all play that 4H shows a club control, right? Shouldn't 5C then show AKxx rather than Kxxx?

[hanp]

Responder has shown a doubleton spade.

responder has shown ♠K, nothing to do with how many cards he's got, in fact he is quite likelly to have it stiff given his will to show clubs instead of showing support the round before.

I realized that responder could have a singleton, but I disagree that responder has shown the king. Why can't responder have xx? 3S is not a cue, it suggests playing in spades.

[Phil]

3♣ is not my choice. Things run so much better after 2N - 3♠ - 4♣. 3♣ also forced the auction into this ping-pong match of doubt about strain, although assuming North isn't cuebidding shortness, South really doesn't care.

 

3♥ worked out poorly in practice, but its hard to lay too much blame on supporting partner's 5 card suit with Qxx.

 

4♠ limits south hand, but North took it as extras and forward going. South meant it as - "I like spades better than hearts". Even I really don't know what North is hoping for with 5♣ - perhaps AQxxxxx, Qxx, Ax, x, but surely South is bidding more aggressively with this.

 

I don't get 5♦/5♥ either but there seems to be some vague last train overtones here. Looking at AQJxxxx when I know partner has the K; I know what trump are.