How should I bid this, and why?

[hirowla]

I know this is probably an old topic, but what would you open when you have a 2-3-4-4 or 3-2-4-4 distribution? Let's assume that you have 12-14 HCP and you play a strong NT. If you had 15-17 pts I'd open 1NT, 20-21 2NT, 18-19 it doesn't matter as much as you're going to rebid 2NT anyway.

 

I've heard reasons both for opening 1♣ and 1♦. What I'm after are the reasons for choosing each. I know SAYC recommends 1♦ but I'm not sure why.

 

So, could everybody give a reason for each and give what they would decide? The reasons are more important than the decision though.

 

Thanks,

 

Ian

[aguahombre]

You are right. It has been discussed before, and I doubt anyone will convince anyone else to change their mind.

 

I believe more people choose 1♦ than choose 1♣, but I also believe a great many of those people do it as an automatic reflex (having played a forcing club at some time in the past, or merely because the people they learned from told them to). Of course this is not true of the really great players who choose 1♦. They have their own systemic reasons for the choice.

 

It also makes a difference to your choice whether you are content to rebid 1NT to show size and approximate shape after responder bids 1M.

 

The fact is that most pairs have better, more well-defined methods after a 1C start than they do after a 1D start -- even those who choose 1♦, and this seems a bit strange.

 

For instance, 1♣ -1NT can be 8-10, while 1♣ - 1♦ can be a balanced response with less than 8. Also, with a balanced invite (say, 3-3-(43), many responders can only jump to 2NT in response to 1♦. But after 1♣, they can respond 1♦ first and gain some information about the nature of the opening bid.

 

Also, it seems easier to respond to 1C with a minimum response and long diamonds than it is to respond with a minimum hand and long clubs to a 1D opener.

[the hog]

As I am going to rebid 1NT to show a balanced hand, I open the better of the two minors. With equal minors or only a minor discrepancy, I think 1C is obvious as you have all your gadgets available. Of course, JDonn will disagree as a matter of course.

[jdonn]

Lol careful you might become as obsessed with me as pooltuna is.

[EricK]

The main reason people open 1♦ is that so that after 1m (1M) X (P) they have a sensible rebid.

 

So with eg ♠xxx ♥Kx ♦KQxx ♣AJxx, they prefer 1♦ (1♠) X (P) 2♣ to 1♣ (1♠) X (P) ???

[ggwhiz]

With a scratchy 12-14 I tend to open the minor I want led since we may well end up defending.

 

1♦ without much of a preference since it implies 4 which might make it easier for pard to compete since a 1♣ opener can so easily be only 3.

[gwnn]

the best way of treating the hands EricK is describing is rebidding 1NT, irregardless of your stopper status.

[helene_t]

If you play transfer responses to 1♣ you can make use of the extra bidding space, and also if RHO leaves in a double on 1♣ you can run to 1♦ (but maybe you don't even want to do that anyway). Or maybe you use a 2♦ response to 1♣ for something cool. And if you have to compete to the 3-level in a minor suit fit, 1♣ makes it possible to find diamonds, 1♦ makes it more difficult to find clubs.

 

Assuming you don't play transfer responses to 1♣ I think the arguments for 1♦ are slightly stronger. 1♦ carries a stronger suggestion of 4+ cards than 1♣ does so it's easier for p to raise. 1♦ sometimes makes LHO's position awkward with some good hands with five modest clubs. And you have an easier rebid if p doubles 1♠ and you don't have a spade stopper.

 

IMO it doesn't matter much and it's sensible to open the better suit to attract the lead.

[Codo]

As this is the BI section, I think Erics approach is the most sensible. it solves a reayl problem without giving up anything.

NT rebids without a stopper in their announced suit and transfer responses after 1 club are no good ideas for the BI section.