The Misadventures of Rex and Jay #5657

[microcap]

Here's a more open-ended question than normal---so run with it!

 

Playing teams with no one red, RHO opens 1♥, you overcall 1♠. I will give you the hand later. LHO passes, now partner bids 2♦, non forcing but he is unpassed.

 

What is the WEAKEST hand you could have to raise to 3♦? If possible, give some examples....

 

thanks !!!

 

Check back in a day or so and I will post the actual hands...

[CSGibson]

Any hand that I would both overcall 1 spade and would have 4 card diamond support I would raise, even if it were KQJxx Qx xxxx xx

[peachy]

Every hand with xxxx support must raise. Why am I at the table if I don't want to cooperate with partner? All hands that have Qxx or better honors in diamonds should raise or do something else, if the overcall hand is otherwise suitable or if the hand is near maximum. Besides, voluntarily removing from a major to a minor, while raising the level at the same time, cannot be non-forcing by an *unpassed hand*.

[nige1]

Here's a more open-ended question than normal---so run with it! Playing teams with no one red, RHO opens 1♣, you overcall 1♠.  I will give you the hand later.  LHO passes, now partner bids 2♦, non forcing but he is unpassed. What is the WEAKEST hand you could have to raise to 3♦?   If possible, give some examples....

You don't need much to overcall 1♣ with 1♠, so ...

♠ QTxxx ♥ xx ♦ xxxx ♣ xx

♠ QTxxx ♥ xx ♦ Kxx ♣ xxx

[655321]

Besides, voluntarily removing from a major to a minor, while raising the level at the same time, cannot be non-forcing by an *unpassed hand*.

LOL

[jdonn]

I think every response in this thread, other than the LOL, is a LOL. Of course you can pass on bad hands without offense even if they have support. That being said you can certainly raise on quite weak hands if the support and offense is good, like ATxxx x Qxxx xxx.

[Phil]

I think every response in this thread, other than the LOL, is a LOL. Of course you can pass on bad hands without offense even if they have support. That being said you can certainly raise on quite weak hands if the support and offense is good, like ATxxx x Qxxx xxx.

Once again when I think I have lost my head as I read posts, Josh's opinion is like a light breaking through dark clouds.

 

This isn't a 'total-tricks' bid. 2♦ is NF. Therefore a raise shows extras. If RHO had bid, this is a different story.

 

OK, I'll go out on a limb and say I'll raise on 4 with about a 10 count.

[bluecalm]

Besides, voluntarily removing from a major to a minor, while raising the level at the same time, cannot be non-forcing by an *unpassed hand*.

 

I will be more helpful than loling.

There are two reasons to "remove" major to a minor here:

a)we have good suit of our own and want to bring it into the auction

b)we have some points and as partne may well have 16-17count for his overcall we don't want to miss a game.

 

Standard agreement is that those bids are NF but somewhat constructive and partner is welcome to pass if his overcall is below opening bid strength (so partner may pass with 10 and we may have 14-15 maximum).

For example:

 

xx x KJTxxx Axxx

 

1♣ - 1♥ pass - ????

 

What do you want to bid here if you don't have non-forcing 2♦ available ?

Why do you want partner to bid anything over this 2♦ with say: Qxx AKTxx xx Jxx ?

[the hog]

AQxxx xxx Qxx xx

This would be an automatic raise for me.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

A raise is certainly constructive, it is not a preempting bid,

so give me a reasonable overcall, say an Ace / King more

than min, this would basically transalate to 10/11.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[aguahombre]

Here's a more open-ended question than normal---so run with it! Playing teams with no one red, RHO opens 1♣, you overcall 1♠.  I will give you the hand later.  LHO passes, now partner bids 2♦, non forcing but he is unpassed. What is the WEAKEST hand you could have to raise to 3♦?   If possible, give some examples....

You don't need much to overcal 1♣ with 1♠, so ...

♠ QTxxx ♥ xx ♦ xxxx ♣ xx

♠ QTxxx ♥ xx ♦ Kxx ♣ xxx

Yep, the OP did say "Run with it".

[hanp]

AQxxx Jxx Axx xx I would raise.

 

AQxxx xxx Qxx xx I would pass.

 

Don't know where exactly the breaking point would be for me.

[pooltuna]

For a raise to 3♦ I would think the equivalent of a limit raise would be the minimum

[bluecalm]

AQxxx Jxx Axx xx I would raise.

 

AQxxx xxx Qxx xx I would pass.

 

I like it.

[microcap]

OK, here are the hands. Remember, the auction went [1[♥], I overcalled 1♠, LHO passes, Rex bid 2♦.

 

I held: [hv=d=e&v=n&n=s10haq1063daj10875c8&s=sq9763h8dk96ck976]133|200|Scoring: IMP

Rex is North, Jay is South[/hv].

 

My thought was that with west passing, We have a very good fit. I know I have a lousy 8 count but it upgrades a bit with the bidding so far. So I bid 3♦--- hence the original question of how weak you can be to raise here.

 

But now, Rex went ape--- 4NT! I bid 5♦, which fortunately he passed. Even more fortunate, it made on a defensive error [or two :( ].

 

I accused Rex of being drunk with the 4NT, especially as his ♥ are mostly waste on the auction. He accused me of being a lunatic for raising a non-forcing bid [and we do play it as n/f] on my sketchy hand and thought I promised extras.

 

I told him just to bid 4♦ or 5♦, that way he could blame me if it went terribly wrong.

 

From the tenor of the responses so far, it appears most are sympathetic to me though granted I do have a terrible hand.

 

Followups? :)

[hanp]

I am not sympathetic with either of you.

[pooltuna]

I am not sympathetic with either of you.

yes but we should ask if they are both out of the hospital now (bullet wounds to the feet are somewhat uncomfortable) plus ask Jay if he has reported his broken "pass" button to BBO yet...oh wait he wasn't online :D

[jjbrr]

raising to 3♦ is nuts imo

[bluecalm]

3♦ is pure lunacy.

 

Interesting question is how should N plan his bidding. I would probably start with 2♥ but maybe 2♦ planning 3♥ next is reasonable ?

[jjbrr]

3♦ is pure lunacy.

 

Interesting question is how should N plan his bidding. I would probably start with 2♥ but maybe 2♦ planning 3♥ next is reasonable ?

3♥ asking for a ♥ stopper? :D

 

 

I think it's clear to start 2♦ and pass if partner doesn't do something encouraging.

[ArtK78]

Holding Jay's hand, I would be happy that partner removed my spade bid (a bid that I, personally, would not make, but I know that many in these Fora would) to 2♦ since we can probably make that.

 

I pass.

 

Give me the ♠A instead of the ♠Q and I would both overcall 1♠ and raise 2♦ to 3♦. If I had the ♠KQ or KJ instead of the ♠Q I would overcall 1♠, but I might not raise diamonds.

 

Some of the early posts in this thread were truly frightening. And, if the spade overcaller did indeed have some of the ultra-light hands set forth in those early posts, I would not be surprised if they led to some committee action, depending on advancer's actions later in the auction if it is determined that advancer knew that some of the ultra light hands were indeed possible hands for the spade overcaller to hold.

[WrecksVee]

Rex, one of the Misadventurers

 

I will add that our overcall standards are 7+ HCP and any five card suit at the one level: yes 96542 really is a five card suit. So I have no problem with Jay's Qxxxx. Not everyone agrees with this style but we have used it comfortably for many years. We are more concerned with competing and finding a fit then directing a lead. Most will allow that a bad agrement is better than no agreement. :D

[microcap]

I knew the 3D bid would be at best controversial at best. My rationale was as follows:

 

1) I love singletons--I tend to upgrade them more than most people.

 

2) I felt the odds were quite high that Rex had 0-1 spades, as with 2 he is much more likely to pass in our style. As he was unpassed and LHO couldn't muster a heart raise, I thought he might have something like x, xxxx, AQxxxx Ax with a great play for 5D.

[bluecalm]

3♥ asking for a ♥ stopper? 

 

Lol. I am a moron. I somehow thought the opening was 1♣ not 1♥.

[microcap]

While I would like to agree with you, I originally posted the wrong auction and it was 1 club LOL I changed it :D))