A principal for new dup Pship?

[trailbzr]

Hi, everyone. This is my first post, so I hope I chose an appropriate board.

 

Background: wife and I just joined a regular duplicate game and need a more formalized bidding system. We're using SA based on the following point zones: 0-5,6-10,11-12,13-15,16-18,19-21,22+.

 

To simplify difficult situations (remember, we're novices as a dup p-ship) we're working on the following idea, that summarizes some common guidelines, but I don't think I've specifically seen it written this way:

 

A good hand is 16 for opener, 11 for responder; so game requires one good hand.

Responder needs a good hand for 2-level; after that, no one goes to 3 without good hand by either player (except: as obvious, final correction to best suit.)

Double means a good hand after opp open or overcall in first round (natural bids still allowed).

 

We're looking to find if this concept is described and futher developed in a published source. If you know of one, we'd love to hear.

 

Thank you and I hope this is in line with board protocols.

[gwnn]

Almost everything is in line with board protocols B) I've been here for 4 years and I contribute with almost no useful posts and I've never been banned or even insulted.

 

Welcome, I hope you'll like it here.

 

I think your zones are OK but the point really is that when you have a combined 25 HCP you should bid game. It's an easier rule to remember. The Danes say it's the Christmas rule:

-When your combined points are at most 24, you should not bid game

-When your combined points are at least 25, you should bid game.

(from December 24-25)

 

Beware of the high card points though, especially when you have found a fit. Also when you have many aces and kings you can just unilaterally think that you have 1 more HCP. In general when you don't know what to do, overbid by a few points, it will pay off.

 

All this said, your 1NT opening should not be 16-18 (I assume this was one of the implications of the 16-18 point zone). It should be 15-17, it works better and it is what everyone else around you plays so it will be easier to get advice. It may sound odd that only 1 little point can be a difference but it is; it's like a different dialect and the subtle implications of one expression or another can be more obscure than expected.

[Stephen Tu]

To learn basic bidding, I would look at the following resources:

 

1. "learn to play bridge" free tutorial download from https://web.acbl.org/LearnToPlayBridge/

2. "Bridge For Dummies" by Kantar

 

A little later on, for a more comprehensive view, get Bill Root's "Commonsense Bidding" and "Modern Bridge Conventions". "Commonsense bidding" by itself is a bit dated, with stuff like strong two openings, forcing jump raises, but it covers the basics well & the convention book will plug the areas that are really old.

[aguahombre]

All this said, your 1NT opening should not be 16-18 (I assume this was one of the implications of the 16-18 point zone). It should be 15-17.

This is right on, for many reasons. For relatively new players, the auction after opening 1NT is probably the easiest to master, and you want to open 1NT as frequently as possible. Not being great at math, it is still clear that there are a whole lot more balanced 15 counts than 18's.

[mikeh]

Welcome to the forums

 

I don't know where you and your wife play, but in many areas, you will find (usually associated with a local duplicate club) teachers. In ACBLand (North America) many of these teachers will be accredited by the ACBL.

 

The reason I suggest this is that your scheme suggests that your ideas about valuation and how hands are bid are not one of the mainstream sets of ideas around. That doesn't make it bad, but it does make it difficult to learn because you are going to have to refine it all by trial and error with few, if any, more experienced players able to help you....because they don't use your ideas and won't readily be able to discuss them. Whereas if you learn by a more traditional method, there are many excellent written resources and many of the local players will be able to help you. But: do a LOT of reading....then you can refine what you learn by asking questions.

 

There are excellent resources for learning standard bidding...I assume that you are in NA or somewhere influenced by NA bidding, since you are proposing to use Standard American.

 

You can almost certainly find some of the more useful books used: ebay always has a selection of books, and many posters here will be happy to recommend some, as Stephen already has. I think we even have a old but very lengthy thread on bridge books which should be easy to find (maybe someone who knows how to link to it can do so in a follow up).

 

Anyway: I hope you and your wife have a great time!

[bab9]

All this said, your 1NT opening should not be 16-18 (I assume this was one of the implications of the 16-18 point zone). It should be 15-17, it works better and it is what everyone else around you plays so it will be easier to get advice. It may sound odd that only 1 little point can be a difference but it is; it's like a different dialect and the subtle implications of one expression or another can be more obscure than expected.

I was taught to use 15-18 for a 1NT call. This then allows the range to be easily split into 15/16 and 17/18 for use with a number of conventions.

 

I found the best resource for bridge books being your local bridge club library (if they have one at your club).

[TylerE]

15-18 NT is TERRIBLE. 3 pt range pls.

[blackshoe]

Some will say that a four point range is too wide. I'm not so sure about that, but in any case one should look at the whole "notrump ladder", that is, how you show any balanced hand in the range from about 12 to about 26 or so HCP. For example, the current "standard" is:

 

12-14: open 1m (usually) and rebid 1NT

15-17: open 1NT

18-19: open 1m (usually) and rebid 2NT

20-21: open 2NT

22-24: open 2C, rebid 2NT

25-27: open 2C, rebid 3NT

 

This ladder has several flaws, IMO, but that doesn't stop people from using it. Some people even use:

 

22+ (the upper limit is undiscussed): open 2C, figure out what to rebid later.

 

If you ask these folks what a 2C opening followed by 3NT shows, or what the upper limit of the 2NT rebid is, you'll get a blank look. They probably also don't know what a 3NT opening shows, or what the difference is between that and 2C-2D-3NT. Hell of a way to run a railroad, but it happens. :D

[bab9]

15-18 NT is TERRIBLE. 3 pt range pls.

Why is it terrible? I have partner who likes playing extended stayman which seems to require a 15-18 HCP point range.

[bab9]

Some will say that a four point range is too wide. I'm not so sure about that, but in any case one should look at the whole "notrump ladder", that is, how you show any balanced hand in the range from about 12 to about 26 or so HCP. For example, the current "standard" is:

 

12-14: open 1m (usually) and rebid 1NT

15-17: open 1NT

18-19: open 1m (usually) and rebid 2NT

20-21: open 2NT

22-24: open 2C, rebid 2NT

25-27: open 2C, rebid 3NT

 

This ladder has several flaws, IMO, but that doesn't stop people from using it. Some people even use:

What do you see as the flaws in this "notrump ladder"?

[TylerE]

The 2♣ - 2bananas - 3NT sequence for one is terrible. A great way to miss a good slam. Kokish relay is better here. (Google it). 15-17 5M hands can be hard also unless you open them all 1NT, which many players won't.

[TylerE]

15-18 NT is TERRIBLE. 3 pt range pls.

Why is it terrible? I have partner who likes playing extended stayman which seems to require a 15-18 HCP point range.

It's terrible because it makes competitive auctions harder, you have perfectly good 1m-1X-2N sequences to handle the 18-19 hand, and responder has to bid with many marginal hands that could pass a 15-17 NT. In short...all downside with absolutely no upside.

[ggwhiz]

Hi,

 

I would definitely recommend a basic system that puts you on common ground with the majority of the bridge world such as the Standard American Yellow card. It will take a while to build up to it all.

 

Booklet here http://web2.acbl.org/documentlibrary/play/sayc_book.pdf

 

If you care to, seek out games or tournaments with hand records. I learned more about judgment and evaluation at post-mortems in the Hospitality suite or gatherings after the game.

 

There is nothing other Bridge players like to share more than their opinion but ie. if you open 1♣ on a hand everyone else opened 1nt on, the conversation screeches to a halt.

 

In most (all?) clubs, after the Director has scored the game you can ask "May I have a summary for pair 7 east west?" and 2 mouse clicks later you will have a useful printout of your scores and results, the good the bad and the ugly.

 

Lots of good reading material out there and dozens of bidding conventions to be added to your system (or not) but at a measured pace. The preferences tend to be regional so find out what gadgets are popular in your group and ask how they work as much to learn how to compete against as to play them.

 

I could never get through a dry boring bridge book but Marty Bergen, Kantar or Mike Lawrence (the 2 "Play Bridge with" books) are fun.

[Vampyr]

... dozens of bidding conventions to be added to your system (or not) but at a measured pace.The preferences tend to be regional so find out what gadgets are popular in your group and ask how they work as much to learn how to compete against as to play them.

Learning to complete against various conventions is useful, but adding them to one's system because they are locally popular is a really bad idea.

 

I feel that an inexperienced partnership should not take up a convention until they have personally, at the table, found a situation that their current methods don't handle well. This way the pair will know why they are playing the convention, will know what natural treatments they are giving up and will have decided that it is worth it, and will also remember the convention more easily.

 

It is so common (probably more so in the ACBL, with all the tempting little check boxes on the convention card) for people to play conventions without knowing what purpose they are intended to serve. In some cases, the redundant natural method is still (notionally) being played rather than the unneeded bids serving some other function.

 

A partnership can go a long time before deciding they need anything besides takeout doubles and Stayman.