What do they hold?

[fuburules3]

At IMPS, no one vulnerable playing 2/1 what do you think each player has after the following bidding sequence (of course, your answer could depend on what your agreements are).

 

1♠ P 2♦ P

3♣ P 3♥ P

3 NT P 4♦ P

4♥ P P P

 

Also, what do you believe the 3♣ bid shows? Extra shape, extra values, both?

[jillybean]

Opener has 5+ ♠, 4+ ♣, a ♥ stopper and ♦ shortage.

Responder is 6/5(4) with a gf hand.

 

In my partnership, 3♣ shows a King more than minimum, with a min hand we would rebid 2♠.

[mohitz]

I play that 3C shows extras with 5-4 or better.

 

Responder bid the fourth suit which I take initially as a try for 3NT. She might have a 2353 hand with no heart stopper for example.

 

Opener's 3NT is typically either 5224 or 5314.

 

Responder's 4D tells us that she has either lots of shape that doesn't want to play 3NT or a slam try hand. While its true that 3H can be bid as a 3NT try without holding 4 hearts, in this auction responder has hearts for sure as she failed to bid 3D. Typically, she would have 6-5 in the reds.

 

Using the game before slam principle, 4H shows a 5314 hand offering 4H to play.

[the hog]

At IMPS, no one vulnerable playing 2/1 what do you think each player has after the following bidding sequence (of course, your answer could depend on what your agreements are).

 

1♠ P 2♦ P

3♣ P 3♥ P

3 NT P 4♦ P

4♥ P P P

 

Also, what do you believe the 3♣ bid shows? Extra shape, extra values, both?

Opener:

5S, 4+C, H stopper Quite probably 5224

For me, 3C shows extra values.

 

Responder 5+D most likely very good 6+, Slammish hand. 3H was simply 4th suit forcing, not showing a H suit.

[aguahombre]

At IMPS, no one vulnerable playing 2/1 what do you think each player has after the following bidding sequence (of course, your answer could depend on what your agreements are).

 

1♠ P 2♦ P

3♣ P 3♥ P

3 NT P 4♦ P

4♥ P P P

 

Also, what do you believe the 3♣ bid shows?  Extra shape, extra values, both?

Opener:

5S, 4+C, H stopper Quite probably 5224

For me, 3C shows extra values.

 

Responder 5+D most likely very good 6+, Slammish hand. 3H was simply 4th suit forcing, not showing a H suit.

Yep, that is what I thought. Then, responder passed 4H and now I think they are playing a 4 2 fit, when opener was just cooperating for slam. "Depends on your agreements" is right on. Ours would be that 4H cannot be passed because of the 4D bid.

[gwnn]

Agree with Jillybean.

[quiddity]

With 5-6 in the reds I would expect responder to bid diamonds, hearts, hearts.

[Phil]

Responder has 4-6 in the reds. 3♥ is suspect; the pass of 4♥ isn't.

 

Opener has shown a 4+ clubs with at least an Ace more than a minimum, although 5-5, I think its OK to do it with about a Q less.

 

Opener is probably cuebidding for diamonds with a 5=Hx=2=4. I think 5=3=1=4 opts for 3N (or 4N if good enough).

[nigel_k]

Responder has diamonds and may or may not have hearts, but won't have five of them unless very bad hearts and very good diamonds.

 

4♥ is a cue bid for diamonds so opener is 5224 or maybe 5314 with a diamond honour and suitable hand. With no slam interest they bid 4NT or 5♦, not 4♥.

 

3♣ shows a real suit and I prefer to play it is non-minimum but a good-ish 14 is enough.

[fuburules3]

Thanks for all the replies. Now for a continuation. Suppose the hands are as follows (spots approximate, may be some tens)

 

♠ AK xxx

♥ Q x

♦ x

♣ Axxxx

 

♠ xx

♥ AKxx

♦ AJ10xxx

♣ x

 

How should the auction go (obviously actual auction went very wrong)? Suppose that it has been agreed that a rebid of 2♠ promises six cards (you can comment on whether you think this is a bad agreement) and and opener can rebid 2nt without stoppers.

[aguahombre]

The conditions you give lead to other conditions.

 

If, after 2d, a 2S rebid must have six of them, then the high reverse (3c) with a minimum opening and 5-5 in the blacks must be allowed. If these two related agreements are in affect, then Opener didn't do anything wrong, except to agree that 2S must show 6.

 

Now, for the "2/1" condition. If you chose to create a game force with that responding hand (many, many would), then on this hand you were doomed. And if you chose to create a strongly invitational sequence, opener would probably accept and you were still doomed.

 

Finally, you might have gotten quite a few matchpoints scrambling 9 tricks in 4H with a trump lead. 3NT looks like down two. (Ok, so it's IMPS ---then you probably did fine. Small gain or push.)

 

Belated edit: Making 4H without a trump lead?

[quiddity]

I wouldn't rebid 3♥ with responder's hand; opener has denied a 4-card heart suit so what's the point? Ordinarily I would just bid 3NT with heart values here, but given the prime values and shortness in partner's second suit it might be better to rebid 3♦ in case partner can raise or show a 6-card spade suit.

 

With the given hands and methods the bidding might go:

1♠ 2♦

3♣ 3♦

3♥ 3NT

[vuroth]

Is it valid to ask whether opener would bid 1NT with a 5 card major? If not, it might change my answer a bit.

[pooltuna]

Is it valid to ask whether opener would bid 1NT with a 5 card major? If not, it might change my answer a bit.

on here you have NO RIGHTS. Playing bridge your opponents are REQUIRED to answer "yes, no, or no agreement(translates as I don't know)"

[aguahombre]

Is it valid to ask whether opener would bid 1NT with a 5 card major?  If not, it might change my answer a bit.

Are you asking if, as responder, you must allow for opener to start 1NT with 5-2-2-4 and the range? A valid question, though it would not occur to me to consider she would have done that. Hence, I would guess that is exactly what Opener has, by the time the bidding gets to 4H, and would end up in a diamond game or slam --also not a good thing on this layout B)

[the hog]

Well, given you conditions, ie not allowing a 2S rebid, the 3H bid was totally fatuous. Why bid 3H when partner cannot have a H suit? The bidding should have gone

1S 2D

3C 3NT

 

Mind you, I hate this bidding, but that is what YOUR system dictates.